U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada > Ottawa-Gatineau
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-03-2015, 10:36 PM
 
1,385 posts, read 1,400,390 times
Reputation: 1720

Advertisements

Great idea and long overdue. It's interesting, though, the nature of criticism, and who's criticizing. They try and make it sound as though it's purely an aesthetic and location issue, but really it doesn't matter what it looks like and where it's located. Personally my only complaint is that it's not grandiose enough.

Tribute To Liberty
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-04-2015, 02:08 AM
 
3,751 posts, read 4,519,271 times
Reputation: 3651
I'm strongly against this idea. You can't "blame communism" for the failures of their individual leaders. Most of the atrocities Communist regimes committed had to do with them either trying to accomplish too much too fast, or were cases of the party being ruthlessly intolerant of people who disagreed with them. Or too much of an insistence on autarky at all costs.

The belief that workers should own the capital collectively in and of itself is not a murderous or hateful belief, it's a smart one in an era where workers are losing their rights.

When are they going to make a "Victims of Capitalism" memorial to the people who died under the regimes of Suharto and Pinochet? They were just as bad as Stalin, Lenin and Mao.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2015, 12:16 PM
 
1,385 posts, read 1,400,390 times
Reputation: 1720
Please tell me you're joking...
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2015, 04:00 PM
 
3,751 posts, read 4,519,271 times
Reputation: 3651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
Please tell me you're joking...
Please tell me you're not a Canadian!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2015, 06:40 PM
 
1,385 posts, read 1,400,390 times
Reputation: 1720
You first!

Certainly you understand that with so many Canadians having fled socialist repression and violence, such a memorial is long overdue and will be a meaningful tribute to the suffering and sacrifices of so many of our ancestors.

The fact that you make light of it and offer weak apologetic excuses for the evils of communist regimes all over the world is pathetic. Blaming it all on the "leaders"? really? I'm quite certain that violence and "revolution" is an inherent aspect of socialism - starting with Marx himself. The nature of the Soviet totalitarian state, for example, is not a corruption by "leaders," rather is an inevitable consequence of socialist thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valsteele View Post
Please tell me you're not a Canadian!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2015, 09:30 AM
 
3,751 posts, read 4,519,271 times
Reputation: 3651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
You first!

Certainly you understand that with so many Canadians having fled socialist repression and violence, such a memorial is long overdue and will be a meaningful tribute to the suffering and sacrifices of so many of our ancestors.

The fact that you make light of it and offer weak apologetic excuses for the evils of communist regimes all over the world is pathetic. Blaming it all on the "leaders"? really? I'm quite certain that violence and "revolution" is an inherent aspect of socialism - starting with Marx himself. The nature of the Soviet totalitarian state, for example, is not a corruption by "leaders," rather is an inevitable consequence of socialist thinking.
Have you ever heard of libertarian socialism? No it's not an oxymoron, in fact true libertarianism was an anarchist movement just like communism. What passes for libertarian today is more like Pinochet-style fascism, basically strip away the democracy and replace it with "liberty", which usually translates to a fascist government run by the military and corporations in tandem.

In practice a Ron Paul type fascism and the Soviet Union would pretty much be the same, ironically. The military and the producers of goods would lord over the oppressed masses in Ron Paul's America in pretty much the exact same way they did under Stalin.

I'm a communist myself, but also strongly anti-authoritarian and not a Marxist. I support cooperative economics, but I'd be fine with Nordic style compassionate capitalism too. I think if you hung out with a lot of Quakers you'd find people with similar views to mine on this topic. You can definitely be a pacifist and a socialist, in fact I see them in many ways as being one and the same.

Last edited by Mini-apple-less; 03-05-2015 at 09:41 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2015, 02:48 PM
 
1,385 posts, read 1,400,390 times
Reputation: 1720
And how does all of this justify not having a national memorial to remember the 100+ million victims of communism? Whether you like it or not socialism tends to evolve into totalitarianism once it gains control and these regimes end up committing mass murder. We already have monuments devoted to other forms of political repression, why are people so resistant to acknowledging the truth about communism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by valsteele View Post
Have you ever heard of libertarian socialism? No it's not an oxymoron, in fact true libertarianism was an anarchist movement just like communism. What passes for libertarian today is more like Pinochet-style fascism, basically strip away the democracy and replace it with "liberty", which usually translates to a fascist government run by the military and corporations in tandem.

In practice a Ron Paul type fascism and the Soviet Union would pretty much be the same, ironically. The military and the producers of goods would lord over the oppressed masses in Ron Paul's America in pretty much the exact same way they did under Stalin.

I'm a communist myself, but also strongly anti-authoritarian and not a Marxist. I support cooperative economics, but I'd be fine with Nordic style compassionate capitalism too. I think if you hung out with a lot of Quakers you'd find people with similar views to mine on this topic. You can definitely be a pacifist and a socialist, in fact I see them in many ways as being one and the same.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2015, 09:52 AM
 
2,831 posts, read 2,822,012 times
Reputation: 2251
How about just an all encompassing memorial to victims of fascism, authoritarianism, and political repression, instead of singling out any political ideology that one may or may not like.

Also, not sure why this would appear in Canada, hardly a victim to communism. If anything, this should get built in China, Ukraine, Russia, Berlin, Eastern Europe.

Oh btw Ken this isn't directed at you so don't bother responding, as I don't want to fill my mind with garbage.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2015, 10:26 AM
 
1,385 posts, read 1,400,390 times
Reputation: 1720
About one-in-four Canadians either fled a communist regime, have an ancestor who fled a communist regime, or have family that died at the hands of a communist regime. People finding freedom from communism in Canada is a part of our collective identity. That's why.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2015, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,376 posts, read 7,004,233 times
Reputation: 5179
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
How about just an all encompassing memorial to victims of fascism, authoritarianism, and political repression, instead of singling out any political ideology that one may or may not like.
That makes more sense. There are also many Canadians who fled fascism and right wing dictatorships.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada > Ottawa-Gatineau

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top