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Old 10-20-2023, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Twilight Zone
950 posts, read 691,496 times
Reputation: 676

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Originally Posted by pathrunner View Post
Hi Monastic, I meant to answer you yesterday but I got sidetracked. Carl Young and Joseph Campbell are the symbolism Kings! So yes he definitely was supportive of Tarot.
Yes, definitely, Joseph Campbell is another good one. Glad you mentioned him. By the way, Pathrunner, since you have a good grasp of Tarot decks, I was wondering what you think of Aleister Crowley's deck. Every time I see historians apply the label "the Wickedest Man in the World" to Crowley, which I feel is so preposterously exaggerated. Admittedly, he was known for his debauchery, but not for any heinous crimes. So I don't know why he keeps getting saddled with that Wickedness label.
What pertains to this Tarot thread is his Thoth deck which receives much admiration, although it gets dissenters too--dissent because of the big difference between his Thoth deck and the Rider-Waite deck. Do you find the Crowley deck too much of a deviation than the other? Also, have you tried any of his ceremonial magick?
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Old 10-20-2023, 04:47 PM
 
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Crowley's deck and his philosophy in general is a matter of huge controversy. I've gone back and forth about him over the years. I myself am not and never have been involved in ceremonial magick. Not because I judge it as wrong, but because I'm just not interested. I read Damien Echols's book Life After Death and found it fascinating. I think his heart is in the right place and that his ceremonial majick is white magic, not black. His ceremonial majick brought him to the place he is today, a free man. My opinion is that he is not guilty of the crimes he was convicted of. Crowley, on the other hand, we just don't know.

I'm not drawn to Crowley because I am drawn to more goddess type and pastel colored decks - except for the Traditional Rider-Waite, Smith-Waite and the Crow Tarot, which uses dark colors (obviously!) I also recently obtained the Angel Tarot by Travis MHenry, which by the way was recommended by Damien Echols when he was still doing a public podcast.

If the Crowley deck appeals to someone then by all means use it, but I myself, if I ever did use it would approach it with caution and I believe everyone should approach tarot with caution no matter what deck they use. Energies attach to things and that is why it is important to call in Light when reading tarot.

What a lot of people don't understand is that many if not most tarot readers pray before their readings and ask for the highest good for the querent, connecting with guardian angels and ministering angels. When I read for someone, I ask that the right answers come through for them, so that they get clarity whether it's something they want to hear, or whether it is not such great news. I don't know whether Crowley did that. I'm inclined to think not, but I just don't know. He's a very controversial figure and it would be interesting to know first-hand what he was truly like.

But here's the thing: debauchery calls in questionable (at best) energy. Why? Because debauchery is connected to the lower areas of the body (2nd chakra). That's why I question his deck. I haven't thought about it in a while, but that's been my take on the issue. If Crowley rose above the debauchery in his use of tarot, well perhaps he'd be given a general pass by historians. I rather doubt that he did rise above it. Hedonism is addictive. My opinion. If Crowley called in those powerful energies and transmuted them, then that's a mitigating factor.
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Old 10-30-2023, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Twilight Zone
950 posts, read 691,496 times
Reputation: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner View Post
Crowley's deck and his philosophy in general is a matter of huge controversy. I've gone back and forth about him over the years. I myself am not and never have been involved in ceremonial magick. Not because I judge it as wrong, but because I'm just not interested. I read Damien Echols's book Life After Death and found it fascinating. I think his heart is in the right place and that his ceremonial majick is white magic, not black. His ceremonial majick brought him to the place he is today, a free man. My opinion is that he is not guilty of the crimes he was convicted of. Crowley, on the other hand, we just don't know.

I'm not drawn to Crowley because I am drawn to more goddess type and pastel colored decks - except for the Traditional Rider-Waite, Smith-Waite and the Crow Tarot, which uses dark colors (obviously!) I also recently obtained the Angel Tarot by Travis MHenry, which by the way was recommended by Damien Echols when he was still doing a public podcast.

If the Crowley deck appeals to someone then by all means use it, but I myself, if I ever did use it would approach it with caution and I believe everyone should approach tarot with caution no matter what deck they use. Energies attach to things and that is why it is important to call in Light when reading tarot.

What a lot of people don't understand is that many if not most tarot readers pray before their readings and ask for the highest good for the querent, connecting with guardian angels and ministering angels. When I read for someone, I ask that the right answers come through for them, so that they get clarity whether it's something they want to hear, or whether it is not such great news. I don't know whether Crowley did that. I'm inclined to think not, but I just don't know. He's a very controversial figure and it would be interesting to know first-hand what he was truly like.

But here's the thing: debauchery calls in questionable (at best) energy. Why? Because debauchery is connected to the lower areas of the body (2nd chakra). That's why I question his deck. I haven't thought about it in a while, but that's been my take on the issue. If Crowley rose above the debauchery in his use of tarot, well perhaps he'd be given a general pass by historians. I rather doubt that he did rise above it. Hedonism is addictive. My opinion. If Crowley called in those powerful energies and transmuted them, then that's a mitigating factor.
Thanks, Pathrunner, for putting so much thought into your answer. Yes, Crowley's lifestyle and even his religious movement was overindulgent and hedonistic. Because his religious movement of Thelema specifically states "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." In other words, overindulgence and hedonism.
The same as you, it's that debauchery that I find repugnant. After all, my username is Monastic, so accordingly I practice Abstinence in some areas. But not to the extreme of Asceticism which is total self-denial. After all I must have some pleasures.
It is quite tolerant of you that despite your feeling of repugnance at Crowley's hedonism, you still respect those Pagans who use his Thoth deck. That is the most admirable characteristic of Pagans--that they respect differences. We might differ in our interpretations of a Tarot-reading but we still respect our differences.
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