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crisan, pompous and arrogant are not name calling. It describes their attitude or personality. Calling someone a name would be a proper noun. Pompous and arrogant are adjectives.
I know of a dysfunctional family that is void of non-spanking methods and heavy on the hand, cruel words....disgusting....and the adults think the kids need more beating.
This thread is about ' spanking ' not child abuse or beatings .
This thread is about ' spanking ' not child abuse or beatings .
Yeah, well, in families where kids are allowed to do what ever they want and are on drugs to help them control their behavior while at school instead of getting good discipline is ALSO considered child abuse.
Ever considered that? Lets not use extreme examples of both types of families. I have made that mistake before.
Spanking can be effective as long as it is not done out of anger or dislike for the child. It can also be effective as long as it is not used as the only form of discipline.
Positive Discipline as some have called it is not permissiveness. Permissiveness is neglect and a form of child abuse just like beating a child is.
A PD parent would NOT say "Dearest Johnny, sweat heart, you shouldn't cross the street." That is disrespectful to the child and patronizing. Instead, a PD parent would grab little Johnny's hand BEFORE getting to the street, the parent would look before they cross and say out loud what they are doing, "Let's look both ways before crossing." They are modeling and explaining, NOT talking, talking, talking. It is not endless babble. Also, when my toddler falls, I don't say "stop crying" or "poor baby." If it is not too bad, I say "What do you do when you fall?" Now she says to me "Up." and gets up. If it is bad, I give her a hand but repeat my question. If it is really bad, I pick her up and don't say anything.
Another thing is PD parents avoid the word "NO" not because they are afraid to use it but I believe that if it is used too much it loses its effectiveness. "No, don't touch that water." "No, that is not how you use that watering can." "No, don't touch those markers." "No, don't play with the dirt in the house plant." The thing is that our children can figure out how to use many of the things that they couldn't as toddlers. Many things we say "no" to as toddlers eventually become "yes". I try to make an environment that meets her needs, that is, her need to explore and touch things without me telling her how to do it. None of my outlets are covered and I never slapped her hand away. She does not touch them at all because that was when I told her "NO!"
Another issue is control. A PD parent doesn't like to control their kids but not when it comes to misbehavior. Examples include: "No, that is not how you use a watering can. You use it like this." "No, the puzzle piece doesn't go there, it goes here." "Let me show you." "Don't be upset." "Don't let that bother you." "Use a cup." "Use a fork and spoon."
Example, my daughter wanted to handle our watering can, but when we gave it to her she spilled all over her feet onto the driveway. We then placed her next to the flower bed. She only cared about the water coming out the spout, not actually watering the plants. Now, she waters the plants simply by watching us. We never told her how to do it. Same thing with using a fork and spoon. We never spoonfed her. She simply pointed to my fork one day and figured it out by watching us, figured it out on her own.
As, NoExcuses pointed out, you can't just read books and know how to raise a child. This is especially important if you were raised in a family where the parents did not have a backbone, if they controlled you too much or didn't discipline you enough. You need to get help either by joining PD groups or by getting a mentor because PD is about discipline and you can't avoid keeping you child from crying or being upset.
Thanks for reading.
I just finished a real life example of positive discipline. I went into my youngest son's room. Now that school is out he is looking for outfits (instead of school uniforms) in the morning. All his drawers were left open and clothes were hanging out of them. I could have said "Don't leave the clothes hanging out of your drawers." Instead I said "I expect you to put all your clothes back in your drawers." It is a subtle difference but rather than have ever sentence be negative "Don't, don't don't" it's positive, telling him what I expect for him.
It's not a case of lack of discipline, it's a case of using positive expectations to effect discipline.
Another thing is PD parents avoid the word "NO" not because they are afraid to use it but I believe that if it is used too much it loses its effectiveness. "No, don't touch that water." "No, that is not how you use that watering can." "No, don't touch those markers." "No, don't play with the dirt in the house plant." The thing is that our children can figure out how to use many of the things that they couldn't as toddlers. Many things we say "no" to as toddlers eventually become "yes". I try to make an environment that meets her needs, that is, her need to explore and touch things without me telling her how to do it. None of my outlets are covered and I never slapped her hand away. She does not touch them at all because that was when I told her "NO!"
Another issue is control. A PD parent doesn't like to control their kids but not when it comes to misbehavior. Examples include: "No, that is not how you use a watering can. You use it like this." "No, the puzzle piece doesn't go there, it goes here." "Let me show you." "Don't be upset." "Don't let that bother you." "Use a cup." "Use a fork and spoon."
This is really confusing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisan
Example, my daughter wanted to handle our watering can, but when we gave it to her she spilled all over her feet onto the driveway. We then placed her next to the flower bed. She only cared about the water coming out the spout, not actually watering the plants. Now, she waters the plants simply by watching us. We never told her how to do it. Same thing with using a fork and spoon. We never spoonfed her. She simply pointed to my fork one day and figured it out by watching us, figured it out on her own.
Unless a child is blind, deaf and dumb, they will learn by watching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisan
You need to get help either by joining PD groups or by getting a mentor because PD is about discipline and you can't avoid keeping you child from crying or being upset.
Thanks, but no thanks.
I have been raising kids and helping raise kids for 50 years, and contrary to popular belief, I love them all. Well, almost all. I've seen the transition in parenting and see where it has taken us as a society. I've paid attention to techniques and results.
Kids need a firm hand. They need to know they are not little adults with the same priviledges (I will not say rights due to onslaught of criticism.) as adults. They are not on equal ground. They have not earned their way. It takes time. A LOT of time and growing and maturity to become equal to an adult.
IMO, babies start learning from birth, their minds are empty. All they have is instinct. They learn fast, but mostly by simple repetition at first. When they are inundated by words that have no meaning there is no processing.
My youngest is very odd. Her mind is wired in a way that took a long time to decipher. As a toddler, she couldn't make choices. She didn't understand. I didn't rush out and have her labled. We started small and worked into complexity.
She started talking in sentences at 7 months old and walked at 10 months. Her IQ is just short of genius (Was tested in 5th grade.). So why couldn't she make choices? Her auditory processing is wired differently than most. She has learned to adapt.
My point: Keeping it simple while kids are small gives them a chance to learn how to process what you are saying. Using too many words adds to the confusion of an already confusing situation. A quick swat on the bottom lends decisiveness where there is no room for question. It redirects immediately drawing attention away from the immediate danger (as stated already).
In addition, I believe kids need to learn how to take direction or follow orders without questioning the parent. They have to know to do what they are told just because they are told. In the event of an emergency, parents need to know their kids will do exactly what they are told immediately without having them question why or wanting to debate. IMO, kids should take an order as an order anyway, emergency or not.
Kids shouldn't think they are the center of life for everyone around them. The world does not revolve around someone's child. Kids don't make the rules.
I just finished a real life example of positive discipline. I went into my youngest son's room. Now that school is out he is looking for outfits (instead of school uniforms) in the morning. All his drawers were left open and clothes were hanging out of them. I could have said "Don't leave the clothes hanging out of your drawers." Instead I said "I expect you to put all your clothes back in your drawers." It is a subtle difference but rather than have ever sentence be negative "Don't, don't don't" it's positive, telling him what I expect for him.
It's not a case of lack of discipline, it's a case of using positive expectations to effect discipline.
Also, it is best if you started PD when they were very young. Trying to change course when they are teenagers is very difficult. I can hear the opposite side laughing right now saying, "If I said that to my child and walked away, they would never do it. A good spanking will solve that problem."
Another issue people ask me is about shopping. There are tons of "nos" there and unfortunately some shoppers had to endure some crying when I took my DD. She was never a carseat baby, stroller baby, carrier baby, nothing. She had to be free or carried in my arms. But I taught her how to shop by first taking her to produce since I pick lots from there. She automatically wants to pick things up. So I point and say "Yes, we need that." and she picks things up, puts them in the bag and then the shopping cart.
When she reaches for something I don't want, I say, "No, we don't need that." She cries sometimes but I quickly move to the next item and repeat the, "Yes, we need that." It takes FOREVER but now I see, the time and effort was totally worth it. She usually waits until I say "Yes" but not always and she mostly walks with me through the store. We are not perfect and not trying to be either.
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