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She "triggered" over being told no .. yanno I have been doing day care for my autistic grandson for sevral years .. He is a handfull but the willfull behaviour your telling us about is more spoiled brat .. Now no day care will watch Trevor because of some of his issues .. and the older it gets the worser My g/son is a screamer and yep its nerve racking so is his spinning and his lack of people space sense but .. being told he has to wait doesnt trigger a fit like that ..
It sounds like the kid was being in brat mode and has learned that she can get her way like this ..
Best advise is to of course refuse her.. AND TELL THE PARENTS WHY I think they are a huge part of the problem
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Which brings us to an issue of non-medical people making judgments such as: may be autistic. All you - or the previous provider - should be doing is description of the behavior. What you saw was a violent temper tantrum.
You have property damage. Submit a bill to the child's parents for replacement/repair of your curtains and let the parents know that she may have injured your DD and, if your DD complains of pain, you will be taking her for medical treatment, the bill to be paid by the parents of the child.
I totally agree .. you cant fix the kid .. thats not your job your job is to provide a SAFE, protective enverioment and this one child has damaged that. Truthfully if my kid came home from day care and told me about that happening I would question it and talk to you .. dont ruin your business by keeping the one .. you must think of the many .. Good luck ..
The two responses you seemed to get out of her were when you told her no and when you told her she couldn't come back. To me that sounds like a lack of discipline. She wants what she wants when she wants it. Chances are the parents give in. The second part sounds like she doesn't want to be watched at someone else's house and may be acting out to get out of going and she really wants to stay home.
If I were you, I would tell the parents what happened and let them know that if the behavior repeats they will need to come pick her up and she will no longer be welcomed. You are watching other kids and if her behavior can be this extreme, you have to watch out for them. What if she drop kicked the other child you were caring for instead of your daughter? That would have been a fun one to explain.
Which brings us to an issue of non-medical people making judgments such as: may be autistic. All you - or the previous provider - should be doing is description of the behavior. What you saw was a violent temper tantrum.
This happens all the time here on CD; post after post of people telling an OP to get therapy and have their kids tested for one thing or another. It's remarkable how many trained diagnosticians we have here.
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Originally Posted by NY Annie
You have property damage. Submit a bill to the child's parents for replacement/repair of your curtains and let the parents know that she may have injured your DD and, if your DD complains of pain, you will be taking her for medical treatment, the bill to be paid by the parents of the child.
I don't think the parents can be held liable for damage a child does while in the care of someone else. The parents are paying the OP to watch the child.
I think you should give her some time. She knows it's expected of her now to have bad behavior. If she's testing you, she needs direction. If she overhears her parents saying things about how unmanagable she is, she will surely SHOW how she can be, and perhaps thinks is expected of her.
Instead of time outs, which I believe are useless, try giving her a chore to do. Have her help with dishes, or sweeping, or vacuuming, or dusting; anything that is age appropriate. Make her your special little helper for a while. Could be she just needs a little caring time with an adult.
Try that for a couple weeks and see if there are any changes.
I have this one child whom I provide childcare for. I will call her "Tina". Her last provider was unable to handle her. I decided I would take her on. Well Today was the 3rd time she has acted out. She is getting worse. Her last provider told me she thinks the girl has autisum.
She is 6 years old. Today her and another child I care for was running for the same swing. I told the girl she had 5 minutes then it was Tina's turn. Well Tina decided she wasn't happy with that and tried to run off. I called her back and she ran up behind my daughter who is 12 and jumped and kicked her in the back. I then told Tina that she was to go for a time out. Well she screamed and dropped to the ground and through a temper tantrum.
Screaming so loud that I was not about to let the neighbours hear this. So I went over to Tina and calmly told her lets go it is a time out for you. She then kicked me. Now this girl is a big girl so I needed some help to remove her from the backyard as I tried and she through a fit kicking me and punching me. So my daughter 12 had to hold her feet while I held her arms to get her into the house.
Once she was in the house she through things around and pulled my curtains off my livingroom window.
I told her that if she didn't stop she wouldn't be allowed back here. She then yelled at the top of her lungs in my face. YES!
Once Tina calmed down I told her that her time out will now start.
Once her time out was over I talked with her about what happened and told her I was going to tell her mom/Grandma Whoever was to pick her up about what happened today. I also told her that if this behavior was to happen again that she will not be allowed back here as we don't hit here and there is time out for that.
Now I feel like I am doing something wrong because I feel that there must have been something else I could have done other than having to bodley remove her into the house. Maybe a suggestion on how else was I to get her to move?
I am asking for suggestions and does this sound like autism, as the her other child care provider thinks it is? If so how do I deal with these tantrums?
There is no way we can know if the girl is autistic based on a post on an internet forum. Unless you are a trained professional it is also unlikely that you can tell either.
I don't think it really matters whether she is autistic though. There is no reason for you to have to handle that sort of behavior. If she is undisciplined then she is not worth the trouble (you will likely lose better behaved customers). If she is autistic you are probably not trained to deal with her. I would just tell her parents that you are not equipped to handle her behavior at this time. Make it a business decision, not a reflection on them or their child.
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
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Originally Posted by Robhu
My wife was a licensed child care provider for years. She usualy had 6 kids a day ranging in age from infants to 6 years old.
If she had an uncontrollable child or one who would not accept rules or discipline she would explain the situation to the parents and inform the agency that referred her to them that she would no longer accept that child.
It is too big of a risk to watch a child that may show violent tendencys and hurt another child during a tantrum. She could have been sued by the injured childs parents because it happened while under her care or even the child throwing the tantrum might injure themselves.
Fortunately it never turned into a big problem.
Twenty some years later once in awhile some of those kids she cared for years ago will stop and visit. They were always treated like family and still stop in if in the nieghborhood. But every once in awhile you can get one that just doesn't work out and it is better to refuse them than to accept the risks involved.
You probably couldn't have done anything different. If the child has a medical problem, you can't fix it. You can just tell the parents of your concern.
If it receives no discipline at home and is a spoiled brat, you can't fix that either.
Absolutely agree with this. I was a licensed family daycare provider for years. My contract actually had a probationary period of 30 days during which I or the parents could end the arrangement, no reason needed to be given. Worked out very well for me.
I've also used daycare providers for my children. I remember one instance in which my child was repeatedly hit by another child who had just been accepted in that daycare. I talked to the caregivers and they described a similar situation: new child who had some "issues", he was apparently hitting all of the children, etc. Quite frankly, I didn't care what his issues were. I expected the caregivers to keep my child safe. Period. Luckily, they were able to do so. Had they not been able to do so, I would have simply taken my child out of their care. End of story. I should add that one of the daycare providers happened to be a retired special education teacher.
Even if your other parents don't sue you, they might very well decide to leave you.
Okay here is how i would handle it , ask the mother to please get her tested for autism . If she says she will , tell her before she can come back she has to be tested or else you cannot continue watching her . Im sorry but it sounds like a lack of disipline to me as well . But I would insist the mother get her looked at . Yes you have other children to concern yourself with as well as your own child .
so what if she is austistic? do you have the skills and education to provide the best care for her?
Whatever it is I'm sure her parents are aware and you should not have to deal with it. Your responsibility is to your own child and the other children you are caring for.
Sounds like an undisciplined child who was testing you. Wondering how much she could push your buttons and test you. How did she do in the time out? What was her attitude once she saw that you were going to inflict a measure of punishment? She could be one of those children who have no discipline at home and are practically begging for an adult who will actually say, "No."
Sometimes children in those situations will turn aound when they know there are rules and X, X, and X is expected of them. But I sure wouldn't submit other children to this for too long. It's not fair to them.
My SIL has two of the most wild kids I have ever seen. I was a preschool teacher at one time and dealt with a lot of kids so I do not say this lightly. The youngest is a real handful and my SIL started telling people she thought he was Autistic. This pissed me off. I feel for parents that truly have Autistic children and then have to listen to some nut parent label their kids when it is purely a discipline problem. My SIL has a hard time getting babysitters and the kids are awful in school. I am not an expert but I never once thought her son was Autistic. He was tested and it was confirmed it was just a discipline problem.
I would tell the mother of the incident and explain that this behavior is not tolerated. I agree that maybe you could give her tasks to complete, make her your helper to see if she needs some added attention. I had a boy that was handful in one of my classes. He liked to bite, kick, punch and so forth. He gave me a nice right hook one day. It was becoming such an issue the director was thinking of kicking him out. The mother was very hostile and difficult to talk too. None of the other teachers ever wanted to approach her. So one day due to staff shortages I was left with this kid and had the task of talking to this mother. I first started off about how being a mom is difficult and the explained how her son's behavior was a problem that day. I guess the way I approached it made her feel I was not attacking her. She broke down crying and told me she was going through a divorce, her son was acting out and her job was a hassle. I told her that her boy was a true sweetheart when he wanted to be (I lied the kid was a monster) but after that talk with the mom, the boy started to change. She was consistent with him and he actually ended up being a sweet kid after a few months. I think the problem was that mom viewed the preschool as the enemy and the kid started thinking that too. Even though the kid was behaving badly, the mother felt defensive and took her frustration out at the school. No parent wants to be told their child is doing something wrong but showing some empathy goes a long way. If that doesnt solve the problem then you need to focus on what is best for the other kids in your care.
I have worked with children of all ages my whole life, but not many autistic children. Could you have let her throw her tantrum outside and just called your neighbors to explain what was going on? I've always let a child throw a tantrum and ignored them, but if she was kicking and hitting that must have been really hard. I have also tried telling a child they would sit in time out in a chair and when they got up put them back in the chair over and over until they give up(all the while ignoring words, screams, & cries). Eventually they give up, but this can be exhausting!! Maybe her parents should have her tested.
I don't know about autism either but I have known a couple autistic kids who were well behaved so there is no excuse for bad behaviour even if they are autistic. Next, I would look into whether they really are autistic or not. Talk to the parents. If you know someone who knows about this sort of thing then invite them along for a little informal observation (read diagnosis). Mind you ratty kids are usually ratty for a reason and you may find that reason is the parents.
I agree with letting the kid do their tantrum outside. Get to know your neighbours. Invite them for coffee/BBQ/Beer. That way they don't start to imagine more than reality when they hear some screaming.
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