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you totally misunderstood what I was stating; calm down a few
Parents who WANT a diagnosis b/c they don't want to deal. I saw this left & right when I taught. Parents who asked ME about meds they were giving their children as if I should be & was the subject matter expert. Parents who didn't take their share of responsibility b/c of all the clutter they choose to fill up their lives with...
As a parent myself, if I felt my child had a need that needed to be addressed medically, I don't see a moment to hesitate.
But ADD/ADHD is overdiagnosed & children are being medicated who should not be & their parents are aware of it. But a calmer child makes a calmer parent to them, so be it.. THAT is what I was referring to...
It was about **** poor parenting, which is far more common these days & accepted.
I wasn't aware that refuting your post means I need to calm down. I thought we were having a spirited conversation.
Some of you have brought up the prevalence of ads for stimulants in teaching journals. So, let me ask pose a question: could the rise in ADHD meds be blamed on ****-poor teaching? Perhaps ineffective classroom managers are looking for easy answers. An overwhelmed teacher struggles to maintain control, and thinks the meds will solve her problem. She fills out the required forms, and sends it on to the school psychologist, who backs her up. Under pressure from the school, parents think they have no other options, so they go for it.
I'll admit to being a bit snarky in this post, but if ADHD is being over-diagnosed, then I think it's unfair to place the blame solely at parents' feet.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 08-13-2010 at 03:35 PM..
For your information, I grew up with those kids. Your questions have nothing to do with the fact there were none in my school.
This is hilarious and totally blows any credibility you had: MY perspective is 'skewed', but your mother in law's isn't? Is that because your mother in law's 'perspective' agrees with YOUR viewpoint?
No, this doesn't have much to do with her agreement with me. What I am saying is that many people have more experience with this than you do. How many kids were in your school? What year was this? How old were you? How do you actually know that there were none in your school even undiagnosed? Just because you saw kids who did not *act adhd* does not mean there were none there. Kids with adhd don't have a particular look the way kids with Down's syndrome do. I am betting you never had a child with Down's syndrome in any of your classes either, but that certainly doesn't mean they didn't exist.
I am pretty sure that I have taught more kids than were in your school although I can't tell unless you answer how many kids you are talking about.
If there were only 30 kids in your class that is a small sample. If your school had 1000 kids, that is still a small sample and you don't know how many kids dropped out or were hidden from you in special education classes. If you went to private school, that skews things even more because private schools simply did not accept kids who had problems.
No, this doesn't have much to do with her agreement with me. What I am saying is that many people have more experience with this than you do. How many kids were in your school? What year was this? How old were you? How do you actually know that there were none in your school even undiagnosed?
I am pretty sure that I have taught more kids than were in your school although I can't tell unless you answer how many kids you are talking about.
If there were only 30 kids in your class that is a small sample. If your school had 1000 kids, that is still a small sample and you don't know how many kids dropped out or were hidden from you in special eduction classes. If you went to private school, that skews things even more because private schools simply did not accept kids who had problems.
My own 90-year-old grandfather has displayed classic signs of ADHD for his entire life. His parents took him out of school when he was in sixth grade, because his teachers claimed he was unteachable. That's what happened in that era, and it's a tragedy. He deserved so much better.
I wasn't aware that refuting your post means I need to calm down. I thought we were having a spirited conversation.
Some of you have brought up the prevalence of ads for stimulants in teaching journals. So, let me ask pose a question: could the rise in ADHD meds be blamed on ****-poor teaching? Perhaps ineffective classroom managers are looking for easy answers. An overwhelmed teacher struggles to maintain control, and thinks the meds will solve her problem. She fills out the required forms, and sends it on to the school psychologist, who backs her up. Under pressure from the school, parents think they have no other options, so they go for it.
I'll admit to being a bit snarky in this post, but if ADHD is being over-diagnosed, then I think it's unfair to place the blame solely at parents' feet.
Hands down, yes. Admin/teachers are overwhelmed; parents are burnt out; doctors just want everyone off their case...it's can be & has been a viscous cycle in our schools.
I saw meds do wonders & truly benefit the child (I taught middle school). I saw meds that made the child fall asleep at 11am yet it was the only answer for them at the time. I also saw way too much of it...8 children out of 24 in one class?? Pair that w/ the IEDs some did not need. It was at times a sad mess & teachers get mad, frustrated & overwhelmed so they just throw their hands up in the air & say "I give up".
No, not saying it is 100% parents fault. But more that parents need to look at the family unit, answer the tough questions, and then seek out meds if necessary. We had a mandatory snack time @ 10am...and at the time students were authorized to bring in anything. Case in point one student whose mom had him on 3 meds and a inch thick IED brought in a can of Pepsi, chips and candy every single day. And I was not allowed to say a thing. And no, he did not have low blood sugar or diabetes or any condition where he needed pure sugar. She knew how to make sure he skated through school (unfair to him if you ask me) but not enough that what she sent to snack time was horrible for him? Or maybe she did..those are the parents I am referring to. A lot out there like that & then many who are beyond awesome who's kids are on several meds and need very detailed IEDs.
Again, have acquaintances that self-diagnosis their kids at 1 yr of age & if they'd only take out all the clutter in their lives & realize that "many" times kids are just kids & parenting is a rough sport, that over time, the child is going to be ok.
This does not at all imply all parenting, all children and so on. I was more responding in MY initial post to the post where teachers & pharm co's were being blamed.
We all need to be advocates for our kids and at times, that will give us the answers we don't want and do want.
I am in no way trying to pretend I am speaking for all or know it all as a parent or former teacher. I only have toddlers and for all I know, all 3 could need some assistance in school or life at anytime in their life but I also hope to be as healthly involved in their lives as long as necessary so if meds were needed, it was due to real issues, not b/c I dropped the ball.
Quite likely Aidxen is correct in his assessment. You were not there and are not any more qualified to make a judgement.
My memory is fine, thank you. I remember very well my school years, all the way back to kindergarten. I remember each child and can tell you that there were none with ADHD. Ever. That's another thing you are not qualified to make a judgement on. I went to school with those kids for 13 years, and nearly with those older and younger than I.
I believe that's true. I don't remember anyone with ADHD in my school either. I have a theory as to why that might be though, and although I'm sure the condition is over diagnosed today, I think that back then children with significant behavioral problems never made it to regular school. They were shipped off to psychiatric institutions, sanitariums and "special" schools, because that's what people did with kids they didn't have the capacity to deal with. Not with any malintent, mind you, they thought they were doing what was "best", and they really didn't know what else to do.
I also agree that processed foods and inactivity play a big role in some of the behavioral issues of modern children.
My suspicion is that Tom and Huck would be dxed with ODD or conduct disorder today. There are simply fewer opportunities for boys like this to be successful.
I believe that's true. I don't remember anyone with ADHD in my school either. I have a theory as to why that might be though, and although I'm sure the condition is over diagnosed today, I think that back then children with significant behavioral problems never made it to regular school. They were shipped off to psychiatric institutions, sanitariums and "special" schools, because that's what people did with kids they didn't have the capacity to deal with. Not with any malintent, mind you, they thought they were doing what was "best", and they really didn't know what else to do.
I also agree that processed foods and inactivity play a big role in some of the behavioral issues of modern children.
I agree, except that I came from a smaller town where everybody knew everybody, so if there were kids shipped off, we would have known about it. There were a couple handicapped girls who were at special schools. One was quadraplegic. She was brought to our school to visit with all of us when she was home and we were still in school. She was absolutely beautiful with straight black hair cut evenly short with bangs. The other was a blond, curly haired girl who had deformities, on the quiet side, but friendly. Then there was Jack. A brother of a classmate. He was hydrociphalic and went away to school. Other than those, all the kids in the area went to school with me.
We had a few bullies and those who got yelled at from time to time, but none with ADHD or who displayed outrageous behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053
My suspicion is that Tom and Huck would be dxed with ODD or conduct disorder today. There are simply fewer opportunities for boys like this to be successful.
I think there are MORE opportunities for boys like Tom and Huck. They are the ones who will go after what they want in life no matter what anyone says, and are brave enough to take defeat before they find success. They are not afraid to fail in order to succeed. We need more like them.
Heard on the news today that the University of Michigan University of North Carolina have just published a study citing that upwards of 1 million children per year are being diagnosed as ADHD or ADD incorrectly. They site pressures from school teachers and administrators on parents and lax diagnostic criteria as a major part of the issue.
The other interesting piece was that they concluded that younger children in a class, with birthdays right before the cut-off dates, are the ones most likely to be singled out for testing by teachers and later diagnosed and medicated. They believe the reason for this is that the younger children are sometimes compared to students 6 months to almost a full year older than they are. The age gap is significant in terms of development at younger ages and leads to otherwise normal age appropriate behavior being singled out as ADHD/ADD in the broader class environment. They go on to hypothesize that this is also the reason why ADHD/ADD is primarily diagnosed at younger ages as the kids "level out" as they get older and many children who are wrongly diagnosed simply need to be left back a year (which is ironically the threat they site from school's that cajole parents to get the diagnosis).
They are pushing for stronger definitions and more rigid diagnostic criteria.
The other interesting piece was that they concluded that younger children in a class, with birthdays right before the cut-off dates, are the ones most likely to be singled out for testing by teachers and later diagnosed and medicated. They believe the reason for this is that the younger children are sometimes compared to students 6 months to almost a full year older than they are. The age gap is significant in terms of development at younger ages and leads to otherwise normal age appropriate behavior being singled out as ADHD/ADD in the broader class environment. They go on to hypothesize that this is also the reason why ADHD/ADD is primarily diagnosed at younger ages as the kids "level out" as they get older and many children who are wrongly diagnosed simply need to be left back a year (which is ironically the threat they site from school's that cajole parents to get the diagnosis).
My mom was telling me about this today. This is exactly what happened to me. I was held back in the second grade because the teacher said I was "immature" my birthday was always either the first or second day of school. The way I look at it I was turning 5 on the first day of Kindergarden and there where students who where turning 6 the next week. It got worse in first grade, turning 6 when everyone else is during seven. After I was held back I did much much better. I also liked being the older student. I remember going off to college turning 19 the first week and there where some students who where still 17 and have to have their mom and dad sign all their papers.
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