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Old 09-16-2010, 09:50 AM
 
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He has an IEP, I know what they are,how they work.He is already being treated /worked w/ at school for learning disabilities. It's NOT working. That is why I want him tested for dyslexia. How can they teach him properly if they don't know exactly WHAT is wrong??????
I am NOT "wasting so much time", thank you very much. A diagnoses of dyslexia means they don't get to blame everything on ADHD, and they will have to provide services for him to get the help he needs.
I hear that crap "stop trying to get a diagnoses" from parents that get told that on my cerebral palsy forums ( my youngest has CP) and a diagnoses IS important in getting the help your child needs & is entitled to by law. Simple as that, IMHO.
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Old 09-16-2010, 10:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by KsStorm View Post
He has an IEP, I know what they are,how they work.He is already being treated /worked w/ at school for learning disabilities. It's NOT working.
It's not working because he isn't receiving special education for a learning disability in the laungage arts.

He has an IEP for speech therapy and occupational therapy. That's not an IEP for a learning disability in the language arts.

Read the IEP. Does it specifically say that he is receiving special education services for the laungage arts?

What does his evaluation report say are his specific learning disabilities? I highly suspect your child has not been evaluated for learning disabilities that pertain to reading.

Many children have IEPs and receive occupational therapy and speech therapy without receiving any special education services for a learning disability.

Sounds like he is receiving remedial reading help, not special education services. BIG DIFFERENCE. Most schools try to solve problems that way because it's cheaper. I can't remember what our school called it. But there was a team of people---the teacher, the remedial reading specialist, the parents, etc.---and everyone focused on trying to improve reading. It didn't work. It really stressed my son out. He just became more frustrated. I told them to STOP the remedial program IMMEDIATELY and insisted they test him for a learning disability. That remedial reading just pushes the information at the kid the same way over and over, instead of teaching specifically for a learning disability. It doesn't matter how much you push something at a child if they can't understand it. And it causes children to become very upset and they act out.

You can be mad at me. That's okay. I've BEEN THROUGH what you're going through. They are feeding you a bunch of crap. That's their job---to avoid special education services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KsStorm View Post
[/u]That is why I want him tested for dyslexia. How can they teach him properly if they don't know exactly WHAT is wrong??????
What you should want is for him to be evaluated for learning disabilities in the language arts, NOT specifically dyslexia. Your being caught up on this word 'dyslexia' is helping them avoid evaluating your son for a learning disability in the language arts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KsStorm View Post
I am NOT "wasting so much time", thank you very much. A diagnoses of dyslexia means they don't get to blame everything on ADHD, and they will have to provide services for him to get the help he needs.
That's not true. If you get a diagnosis for ADHD, they can blame everything on the ADHD and not give him services. That's why I was saying forget about the ADHD for now. Go after the learning disability.

But he could also not receive special education services even if he is diagnosed with dyslexia. Dyslexia diagnosis alone won't get him the services. They might say his dyslexia isn't severe enough. They might say that he's not far enough below his potential.

Did you read the links I provided? They'll tell you it's too soon to test. They'll tell you that it's too late to test. They'll tell you that he needs evaluated by X. When you get your child evaluated by X, they'll say they don't accept evaluations by X.

It's all a game to keep your child from getting services. You put a request in writing and they can't play the game anymore because there is written proof you requested it. There is no proof that you've had these conversations. There is no proof they said to do X, Y, Z. But if you write a letter, they WILL evaluate your son because there is PROOF you asked for it to be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KsStorm View Post
I hear that crap "stop trying to get a diagnoses" from parents that get told that on my cerebral palsy forums ( my youngest has CP) and a diagnoses IS important in getting the help your child needs & is entitled to by law. Simple as that, IMHO.
Do whatever you think you need to do, BUT WRITE THE LETTER TODAY TOO! There is no reason to not write the letter!

Last edited by Hopes; 09-16-2010 at 10:47 AM..
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Old 09-16-2010, 11:03 AM
 
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KsStorm, know your frustrated...as you should be. Your not alone, sadly enough. I hope you'll write the letter. I'd give advice on the IEP, but we fought the good fight ourselves and lost. Hence homeschooling. I'm not recommending that, just saying many have gone before you. In fact my last homeschooling group had a great deal of dyslexics kids who simply couldn't make it with the system as it is.

I'd recommend you visiting the dyslexia sites for support. We all have a story. We all want our kids to get a quality education, sadly most of us have been ineffective. That doesn't mean that we don't want someone elses child to have a chance.

Also, if you'd like to tutor him yourself. Yes, I must say it; as sometimes as parent's were left with no option the dyslexia sites have recommend materials and also the homeschooling sites.

I don't know that the dyslexic label will help you. According to the public schools it doesn't exist. I know....sad. I was floored. But, hey what do I know. Both hubby and I have masters degrees, I had a advocate, the research, the test scores, and we still couldn't get help; despite months of research and frustration on my part.

I'd be glad to help if you like in this area as I have a eight year old dyslexic.
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Old 09-16-2010, 11:21 AM
 
Location: grooving in the city
7,371 posts, read 6,821,517 times
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Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
If you receive a diagnosis for ADHD, the school district will ALWAYS blame any current and future learning problems on ADHD. It will hinder his changes of being diagnosed with a learning disability and receiving instruction for reading. An ADHD diagnosis should be your last resort.

You might have misunderstood their suggestion he have his vision checked. That might not have had anything to do with ADHD. They might want you to get his vision checked because children who have a difficult time seeing often appear to have behavior problems or learning disabilities, when all they really have is a vision problem.


That's extremely possible! He could be bored because he doesn't understand. He could be frustrated because it's difficult. He could be angry because he's not doing as well as the other children.


Let me explain something that might be difficult to hear. He will only qualify for services for a learning disability if he is functioning below his potential. When he is evaluated for a learning disability, his performance has to be lower than his IQ abilities. How much lower, depends on each state law. If he doesn't have the IQ potential for better grades, they wont' give him special services, even if he's reading below grade level. That doesn't mean that your son can't do better with special instruction. It just means that the school district won't pay to provide him special instruction. The terms underachieving and overachieving are affiliated with the IQ. It's possible to have a lower IQ and overachieve. I'm sharing this so you know that his IQ isn't a true standard for his potential. It's sadly a measure that school districts use to measure if a student qualifies for special services under the law.


They'll call it something generic----like a learning diability in the language arts. Your asking for testing for a specific disability is helping them avoid testing him. They simply respond "we don't test for that" and hope you go away. The trick is that you dont' ask during a conversation. You have to write a letter and the letter needs to inclue specific information to meet legal requirements for the school to be bound to test your child for learning disability. You don't ask in the letter for the child to be tested for dyslexia. You ask that your child be evaluated for a learning disability.

Here's information about how how to phrase your letter and what to include in the letter:

LD OnLine :: Sample Letters: Requesting an Initial Evaluation for Special Education Services


Exactly. And an ADHD diagnosis alone won't qualify a student to receive special education instruction for language arts. It might hinder the child ever receiving services because the school district can blame all his poor performance on ADHD instead of a learning disability. I'm sure you know this. Just using your post as a jumping off point to reclarify to the OP.


I agree that time is of the essence. My son probably had dyslexia, but I live in a school district that doesn't provide specific labels to learning disabilities. He had a learning disability in the language arts. He couldn't make heads or tails out of the alphabet in kindergarten, which caused him great distress.

I requested that he be evaluated. Dyslexia runs in my family. He began to receive special education services in the language arts in 1st grade. By 3rd grade, he was reading at a 7th grade level. He has never had a learning problems since, except for organization. He is 18 years old and in his 3rd year of college.

Going after an ADHD diagnosis will just postpone the OP's son receiving services and could possibly prevent him from ever receiving services.

My son's school tried the ADD route. I didn't buy into it. His IQ is above 160. The kid was frustrated and bored. There is nothing ADD about my son. Any slight symptoms he had completely disappeared after his learning disability was appropriately addressed.
Awesome post. I am dyslexic. And even still when I get really tired or frustrated, I still see things from a dyslexic viewpoint!!! I was very fortunate. When I was young my Mom realized that I was often doing my numbers and alphabet letters incorrectly. The first thing they did even then was a vision test, and now I have been wearing glasses for over 40 years. And you are so right about labels. Unfortunately, in some places labelling is what gets the funding. Like your son, I was bored in school, and I have had some organizational issues. Thank God for my Mom who patiently sat with me day after day as I traced letters and numbers. Schools and some professionals love the label "ADHD". It becomes a "reason" not to provide the student with the very best possible education. Now I am working on another degree.
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:39 PM
 
613 posts, read 989,715 times
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Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
It's not working because he isn't receiving special education for a learning disability in the laungage arts.

He has an IEP for speech therapy and occupational therapy. That's not an IEP for a learning disability in the language arts.

Read the IEP. Does it specifically say that he is receiving special education services for the laungage arts?

What does his evaluation report say are his specific learning disabilities? I highly suspect your child has not been evaluated for learning disabilities that pertain to reading.

Many children have IEPs and receive occupational therapy and speech therapy without receiving any special education services for a learning disability.

Sounds like he is receiving remedial reading help, not special education services. BIG DIFFERENCE. Most schools try to solve problems that way because it's cheaper. I can't remember what our school called it. But there was a team of people---the teacher, the remedial reading specialist, the parents, etc.---and everyone focused on trying to improve reading. It didn't work. It really stressed my son out. He just became more frustrated. I told them to STOP the remedial program IMMEDIATELY and insisted they test him for a learning disability. That remedial reading just pushes the information at the kid the same way over and over, instead of teaching specifically for a learning disability. It doesn't matter how much you push something at a child if they can't understand it. And it causes children to become very upset and they act out.

You can be mad at me. That's okay. I've BEEN THROUGH what you're going through. They are feeding you a bunch of crap. That's their job---to avoid special education services.


What you should want is for him to be evaluated for learning disabilities in the language arts, NOT specifically dyslexia. Your being caught up on this word 'dyslexia' is helping them avoid evaluating your son for a learning disability in the language arts.


That's not true. If you get a diagnosis for ADHD, they can blame everything on the ADHD and not give him services. That's why I was saying forget about the ADHD for now. Go after the learning disability.

But he could also not receive special education services even if he is diagnosed with dyslexia. Dyslexia diagnosis alone won't get him the services. They might say his dyslexia isn't severe enough. They might say that he's not far enough below his potential.

Did you read the links I provided? They'll tell you it's too soon to test. They'll tell you that it's too late to test. They'll tell you that he needs evaluated by X. When you get your child evaluated by X, they'll say they don't accept evaluations by X.

It's all a game to keep your child from getting services. You put a request in writing and they can't play the game anymore because there is written proof you requested it. There is no proof that you've had these conversations. There is no proof they said to do X, Y, Z. But if you write a letter, they WILL evaluate your son because there is PROOF you asked for it to be done.


Do whatever you think you need to do, BUT WRITE THE LETTER TODAY TOO! There is no reason to not write the letter!
I just wanted to say that Hopes is absolutely correct here. You need a paper trail for EVERY request, meeting, in person conversation, phone conversation, what have you. Verbal promises are empty promises and schools know they do not have to follow through with anything if there is nothing in writing. Tape recording IEP meetings is advised as well (check your special ed handbook on procedure, usually a written request several days prior to the meeting), and bringing someone for moral support who is also WITNESS to the meeting is a good idea.

I can see from your post that you are upset with Hopes post, but she really is giving you excellent advice and in my eyes just trying to motivate you to take ACTION, and quickly. The schools try to drag everything out as much as possible, usually hoping the parent will just go away and leave them alone. Because many parents don't know the procedures to follow in order to get the school district to do their jobs, the school districts often get away with it.

Once they see from the letters you write requesting evaluations, particularly if you use wording such as "I know from the special education handbook in our state that requested evaluations must be scheduled within 30 days.", or in the case of a Letter of Understanding regarding a conversation "If I do not receive a written reply withing 10 days I understand that you agree to facts stated in this letter.", they will be alerted to the fact that a. you mean business, b. you understand the special education procedure, c. you will not allow them to stonewall you, d. that you are documenting EVERYTHING.

I understand your desire to get an accurate diagnosis, but you should put that aside only for as long as it takes you to get that letter for a request of evaluation to the school district. You really need to get the ball rolling. Personally, I always hand delivered all letters to the special education department and had them stamp it received with the date, and left with the stamped copy. Otherwise, send it registered mail, return receipt, though this does take longer.

Then, AFTER you've taken care of that, then start seeking a dx of dyslexia privately. This is only area I slightly disagree with Hopes about regarding a dx. Having a dx of a known disability will help dispute the school's classification of ADHD. Having a doctor evaluate and report that your son does NOT have ADHD will help as well. As long as your son is classified ADHD, the school will see your son through ADHD eyes and attribute most, if not all behaviors, to ADHD. However, this may still happen even with a dyslexia dx.

I would also have your son evaluated privately for ADHD, particularly if you feel the dx is incorrect. If the school gave you this classification, I would place odds that it IS INCORRECT.

My son was misdiagnosed with autism at a very young age. The school blamed everything on autism...he doesn't socialize like the other kids, he doesn't respond appropriately to requests, etc. Well, he had a LANGUAGE DELAY! Of course he didn't socialize as well as other kids! Of course he didn't respond appropriately to your requests! He either doesn't understand what the heck you are saying or doesn't have the capacity to verbalize an appropriate response!

Once I had my son evaluated by a well known, well published and highly reputable child psychiatrist who disputed and discounted the autism dx, the school district and school personnel finally took notice and adjusted his therapies accordingly.

So, I DO think you should get an accurate dx, but I also think you should get the ball rolling with the school district now.

Last edited by wsop; 09-16-2010 at 12:48 PM..
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Old 09-16-2010, 01:23 PM
 
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I am not upset w/ anyone,it is just kind of rude to tell a parent they aren't doing all they can to help their child. I don't need any "motivation", but thanks for trying to help .
We have a very small school district ( I think there is maybe 30 kids in the entire 2nd grade! ) and the entire staff is really trying to do all they can to help my son, even the principal makes personal calls to parents for snow days, if that gives you any idea how involved they are.
It doesn't seem like they are trying to NOT give him the services, and I know the OT & SLP very well, they used to visit my youngest weekly for his CP through the county's Early Intervention program for his cerebral palsy.
He gets daily para support w/ his reading,and also therapy to help him focus in class. The kid is like the Energizer Bunny on speed at times. I truly believe a lot of it stems from how horribly picky he is w/ food, when he was younger & wasn't a picky eater yet, he was nowhere near as hyper. As he got older & became more & more picky, he got more hyper. I believe he may indeed have ADHD but I also believe he has dyslexia!
I'm waiting for a call back from the local mental health center ,hoping that the psychologist that he sees there will be able to help.
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Old 09-16-2010, 01:47 PM
 
613 posts, read 989,715 times
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Originally Posted by KsStorm View Post
I am not upset w/ anyone,it is just kind of rude to tell a parent they aren't doing all they can to help their child. I don't need any "motivation", but thanks for trying to help .
We have a very small school district ( I think there is maybe 30 kids in the entire 2nd grade! ) and the entire staff is really trying to do all they can to help my son, even the principal makes personal calls to parents for snow days, if that gives you any idea how involved they are.
It doesn't seem like they are trying to NOT give him the services, and I know the OT & SLP very well, they used to visit my youngest weekly for his CP through the county's Early Intervention program for his cerebral palsy.
He gets daily para support w/ his reading,and also therapy to help him focus in class. The kid is like the Energizer Bunny on speed at times. I truly believe a lot of it stems from how horribly picky he is w/ food, when he was younger & wasn't a picky eater yet, he was nowhere near as hyper. As he got older & became more & more picky, he got more hyper. I believe he may indeed have ADHD but I also believe he has dyslexia!
I'm waiting for a call back from the local mental health center ,hoping that the psychologist that he sees there will be able to help.
The entire staff is trying to help, yet they give you the following advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KsStorm View Post
I talked to the special ed teacher today & she said that this is a test usually given by an eye doctor, which sounded kind of odd to me.
The entire staff may be trying to help you, but it is within the constraints of what the school is legally bound to do. Clearly, from the above, the special ed teacher is either being incredibly misleading or she honestly knows nothing about dyslexia. From what little I've read here and online just in the past 20 minutes, my guess is she knows nothing about dyslexia.

Regardless, how do expect the school district to help your son by classifying him correctly without evaluating him for a learning disability? Many times the principal and the staff's hands are tied by the higher ups in the special ed dept., and they say and do what they are told, whether it is the right think to do or not, whether they want to be helpful or not. No one wants to lose their job, and since apparently NO ONE at your child's school has suggested you write a letter requesting an evaluation, they are either being intentionally misleading, or incredibly stupid. Take your pick.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:10 PM
 
2,794 posts, read 4,147,906 times
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Originally Posted by wsop View Post
The entire staff is trying to help, yet they give you the following advice?



The entire staff may be trying to help you, but it is within the constraints of what the school is legally bound to do. Clearly, from the above, the special ed teacher is either being incredibly misleading or she honestly knows nothing about dyslexia. From what little I've read here and online just in the past 20 minutes, my guess is she knows nothing about dyslexia.

Regardless, how do expect the school district to help your son by classifying him correctly without evaluating him for a learning disability? Many times the principal and the staff's hands are tied by the higher ups in the special ed dept., and they say and do what they are told, whether it is the right think to do or not, whether they want to be helpful or not. No one wants to lose their job, and since apparently NO ONE at your child's school has suggested you write a letter requesting an evaluation, they are either being intentionally misleading, or incredibly stupid. Take your pick.
I'm thinking the school isn't equipped to deal w/ it , according to this article that I posted yesterday:
Kansas' dyslexia dilemma - KSN TV, Kansas News and Weather

Quote:
If a parent says to you, as a teacher, ‘Is my child dyslexic?’ again, you can't answer that question,” said Jeanine Phillips with the Fundamental Learning Center.

That’s because that state does not screen students for dyslexia, nor does it prove specific training for teachers in dealing with a dyslexic student.
Quote:
Regardless, how do expect the school district to help your son by classifying him correctly without evaluating him for a learning disability?
Kansas DOESN'T SCREEN for dyslexia , so how are they going to be able to teach him correctly , is the real question.
The mental health dept. did call me right back, & said they do screen for it, but also said the school does, but the told me they did NOT at his last IEP meeting. She's going to look into it, hopefully I will learn more soon.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:18 PM
 
2,794 posts, read 4,147,906 times
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Originally Posted by serrendipity View Post
KsStorm, know your frustrated...as you should be. Your not alone, sadly enough. I hope you'll write the letter. I'd give advice on the IEP, but we fought the good fight ourselves and lost. Hence homeschooling. I'm not recommending that, just saying many have gone before you. In fact my last homeschooling group had a great deal of dyslexics kids who simply couldn't make it with the system as it is.

I'd recommend you visiting the dyslexia sites for support. We all have a story. We all want our kids to get a quality education, sadly most of us have been ineffective. That doesn't mean that we don't want someone elses child to have a chance.

Also, if you'd like to tutor him yourself. Yes, I must say it; as sometimes as parent's were left with no option the dyslexia sites have recommend materials and also the homeschooling sites.

I don't know that the dyslexic label will help you. According to the public schools it doesn't exist. I know....sad. I was floored. But, hey what do I know. Both hubby and I have masters degrees, I had a advocate, the research, the test scores, and we still couldn't get help; despite months of research and frustration on my part.

I'd be glad to help if you like in this area as I have a eight year old dyslexic.
That is scary. I don't feel qualified to homeschool, that's for sure! In a lot of ways, it really seems the educational & medical communities are so NOT up to par as they should be, I had to learn this the (very!) hard way in dealings w/ them for my youngest w/ CP. I know all about being your child's advocate, & not giving in. I have found quite a few good resources online that are helping. I mainly came here to hear other's experiences w/ dyslexia, to learn more about it.

The article I posted said there was legislation about dyslexia but it was never adapted, & now w/ the huge budget cuts in Kansas I don't see it happening any time soon. May be time to think of moving to a state w/ better education services.
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:05 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,831,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KsStorm View Post
We have a very small school district ( I think there is maybe 30 kids in the entire 2nd grade! ) and the entire staff is really trying to do all they can to help my son, even the principal makes personal calls to parents for snow days, if that gives you any idea how involved they are.
It doesn't matter how small the school district. They have to provide your son with services. If they aren't equipped to provide the services, they have to do one of three things: 1) pay for your son to attend a school that does have the services; or 2) contract with a special education services entity to come into the school to provide your son with services; or 3) hire a special education teacher that's appropriate for your son's disability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KsStorm View Post
It doesn't seem like they are trying to NOT give him the services, and I know the OT & SLP very well, they used to visit my youngest weekly for his CP through the county's Early Intervention program for his cerebral palsy.
He gets daily para support w/ his reading,and also therapy to help him focus in class.
The daily para support isn't special education services for reading. Your son can't read because he's not receiving the proper services. They aren't doing the best they can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KsStorm View Post
The kid is like the Energizer Bunny on speed at times. I truly believe a lot of it stems from how horribly picky he is w/ food, when he was younger & wasn't a picky eater yet, he was nowhere near as hyper. As he got older & became more & more picky, he got more hyper. I believe he may indeed have ADHD but I also believe he has dyslexia!
I'm waiting for a call back from the local mental health center ,hoping that the psychologist that he sees there will be able to help.
Even if he has ADHD, the schoo doesn't need to be informed about it. Your son's medical history is your business. It's private. For ADHD, they won't provide your son with services, just accomodations. It sounds like your son is already recieving the type of accomodations he would receive anyway. Seek out the diagnosis of ADHD for your own peice of mind, but don't tell them about it until AFTER you have an evaluation and an IEP for special education services in the language arts. That way they can't blame everything on the ADHD.

You've called the eye doctor. You've called the mental health center. Have you written the letter to the school yet?
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