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I am trying very hard to teach my children, currently my 13 yr old daughter, social ettiquette. I feel like I am fighting the world though. This is comical to me in the sense that my young 7 yr old son is constantly in an imaginary battle with the world. You can see him fighting to save the universe at any point in time- whish, shoosh, oosh...lol.
Back to topic, phone calls don't start until 9am and end by 9pm. If that phone rings after 10pm, someone better be in the hospital or have other urgent news. Greeting someone with a polite smile and shake of the hand and look them in the eye. Please, thank- yous, excuse me, holding the door, etc.
I feel like everywhere we go, my daughter has more bad role models than good ones.
So far, she is doing a good job understanding where I am coming from and isn't throwing me a bunch of rolling eyes.
I also battle the adults who are sick of tweens/teenagers and thier behaviors. But then again, those adults are modeling behaviors for those around them.
ugh...ugh....ugh
It's these kinds of things you don't see much anymore, so thank you, SO much, for wanting to teach your kids basic etiquette. My parents taught in part by example, and in part by informal instruction.
My parents never spoke vulgarities, so we were brought up sensing that random 4-letter-words were simply not spoken in the house. To this day, though I often talk like a truck-driver, I will not speak those words in the presence of my parents, or anyone older than I am who I'm not -very- familiar with, who also speaks them. And - I'm 50 years old.
My parents place dinner napkins on their laps, even if they were just paper napkins. We were expected to follow suit, and so we did. My parents instilled in us the obsession with please and thank you, and we were not allowed to say "yeah" or "nah." It was "yes" or "no." Repetition of the rules was really the only way to instill some of this in us, plus having the example set by our parents.
There wasn't any punishment if we "broke the rules" unless we were breaking them belligerantly. And then, we were being punished for being belligerant, not for the broken rule. Just, every time we said "yeah" they'd say "you mean yes." And we'd have to say "yes." Eventually it became habit to simply say "yes." The same with please and thank you, and looking at a person's face when we're speaking with them.
Holding the door open for elders or infirm - valued skill more than a rule, we were praised when we did it. So - we did it.
It's the little niceties in life, that makes us civilized. That was a lesson from my grandmother, who I adored. She taught us how to set a formal dinner table (we already knew how to set an informal one), and which fork went with which part of the meal, and how to lay the knife down on the top edge of the plate when you were finished eating - blade facing toward you, so as not to cut the server when he takes the plate away.
We grew up simply being exposed to all this stuff by family. Most of it we didn't need to be "ordered" to do, but more just guided and reminded. And reminded, and reminded. Eventually we absorbed the information and grew up doing the same thing.
Manners can be taught, but the lessons aren't going to be learned well without exposure to regular practice of those manners.
Yay for you, frog. I wonder how it happened that there seems to be such a gaping hole in manners today. My parents were also very focused on teaching us manners and consideration for others.
These days, I rarely hear a cashier say "thank you." As a customer, it's ingrained in me to say "thank you" after a sales or service transaction. Mostly the clerk replies with "You're welcome" or the every popular "Have a nice day." What happened to the very basic "thank you" (for your patronage) as a mandatory part of customer service training? (I guess "have a nice day" is better than nothing.) Thankfully, I still notice a lot of holding doors. And whether it's for an elder or just the person behind you, it's lovely.
Maybe basic manners, etiquette and social basics should be a mandatory part of the education curriculum for young people. After all, isn't it the basis of civility?
And while teaching civility, we might as well throw in training about "you really don't need to be talking on your phone every waking moment, including while you're shopping, driving and sitting in a waiting room." Students could get extra credit for this class.
Frog, I hope your daughter remains on your wavelength. I remember being very rude once in the presence of my father (not profane, just rude). Later, my dad told me privately that my behavior was "very unbecoming." That comment resonated with me and I still remember how much it affected awareness of my behavior. Parents are such important models and teachers. I hope the bad role models your daughter encounters learn something from her good manners.
It does feel like an uphill battle sometimes....I try to teach my children yes/no/please/thank you, doors, looking at someone you're speaking to, greetings, hats at tables (I'm looking at my persistent 13 year old over that one...) etc. Largely by example, and with reminders.
I have had the odd kid through the house (kids school friends) that has made me think, kid, you're a manners disaster...And many adults out in the world that make me think that too - which is obviously the real problem. Monkey see, monkey do. It's good to be considerate.
I have had other parents comment on my kids' manners so it is good to know that they are taking these things on board, and sticking with them when I'm not around aswell.
It's these kinds of things you don't see much anymore, so thank you, SO much, for wanting to teach your kids basic etiquette. My parents taught in part by example, and in part by informal instruction.
My parents never spoke vulgarities, so we were brought up sensing that random 4-letter-words were simply not spoken in the house. To this day, though I often talk like a truck-driver, I will not speak those words in the presence of my parents, or anyone older than I am who I'm not -very- familiar with, who also speaks them. And - I'm 50 years old.
My parents place dinner napkins on their laps, even if they were just paper napkins. We were expected to follow suit, and so we did. My parents instilled in us the obsession with please and thank you, and we were not allowed to say "yeah" or "nah." It was "yes" or "no." Repetition of the rules was really the only way to instill some of this in us, plus having the example set by our parents.
There wasn't any punishment if we "broke the rules" unless we were breaking them belligerantly. And then, we were being punished for being belligerant, not for the broken rule. Just, every time we said "yeah" they'd say "you mean yes." And we'd have to say "yes." Eventually it became habit to simply say "yes." The same with please and thank you, and looking at a person's face when we're speaking with them.
Holding the door open for elders or infirm - valued skill more than a rule, we were praised when we did it. So - we did it.
It's the little niceties in life, that makes us civilized. That was a lesson from my grandmother, who I adored. She taught us how to set a formal dinner table (we already knew how to set an informal one), and which fork went with which part of the meal, and how to lay the knife down on the top edge of the plate when you were finished eating - blade facing toward you, so as not to cut the server when he takes the plate away.
We grew up simply being exposed to all this stuff by family. Most of it we didn't need to be "ordered" to do, but more just guided and reminded. And reminded, and reminded. Eventually we absorbed the information and grew up doing the same thing.
Manners can be taught, but the lessons aren't going to be learned well without exposure to regular practice of those manners.
What a great post, AC. I couldn't agree with you more. The first thing we taught DD to say was please and thank you, and she says it totally naturally now, without needing a lot of reminding. We make sure we practice what we preach and say it to her a lot in our everyday conversation. If you include all of these things you mentioned in your day to day life, you don't really need to teach manners per se, it just becomes part of who you are.
At the moment we've been quite successful in replacing "gimme" and "I want" with "please may I have" and "I would like" and have managed to knock gimme and it's variants out of her vocabulary. She doesn't quite get the may part yet, and says "please I have (insert item here)" - it's very cute.
I was also taught about the knife and fork positioning on your plate when you've finished your meal, and to add to yours - we were also told that it signaled the server that you were done with your plate and they could take it away, so they didn't have to ask, and wouldn't take it before you were done, which can be awkward.
I intend to teach etiquette to my kid, because I think it's the basis for a good behavior in everyday life.
As another poster said, "monkey see monkey do", so we are the ones who have to set an example, from the very day our child is born. If we say please, thank you, etc, then our children will probably do the same!
I used to teach teenagers and I was amazed to see how few of them would say hello when entering the classroom, or thank you whenever I handed documents. So rude! (and being a teenager is not an excuse!)
I posted in another thread about having my "high society" aunt and uncle give my cousin and I lessons. The skills I learned were invaluable, but they were more directed at good table manners and knowing what silverware was what, etc.
Common courtesy manners were instilled by the parents through teaching, but mainly through example. I think it's an important thing for kids to learn and I think we have been doing a decent job with my oldest.
If I had to guess I think the breakdown of these common courtesies is a direct result of the ingraining of technology into our lives. America was already an informal society before the internet, cell phones and social networking, but these tools have made us become even more informal. When the bulk of your daily communication with non-family consists of text messaging and status updates you lose the face-to-face communication skills and the common courtesy that goes with it. Today we are essentially able to limit our "society" to the circle of people we select.
I see the breakdown more as a sense of entitlement. Perfect example: I've noticed lately when I go to a restaurant where tips are accepted, the server will actually ask me if I want the change, when I pay the bill.
This is even if I'm putting a $20 bill down for a $15 meal. Do they really expect me to say "no" and give them $5 tip on a $15 meal? What kind of presumptuousness is it that they'd even have the nerve to ask? You don't ASK for a tip. You can put a sign on the front door saying "tips welcome" or even a pre-printed blurb on the guest check saying "thank you for your gratuity!" but verbally confronting someone who hasn't paid you yet with the expectation that they will give you money? That's just - rude. Uncouth. Classless.
<edited to add> - if they ask "do you want singles back?" I could understand that. It makes things easier for me to tip them, when I have singles to do so, and that is a courtesy that the waiter would ask. But to ask "do you want your change?"...is just rude.
I get that at the drive thru too. Dunkin Donuts doesn't allow tips, and their coffee is $1.95 per cup. The drive-thru guy would just - not give me my nickel. I'd be sitting there waiting for it and he wouldn't even offer it back to me. I mean sure it's just 5 cents. But it's not up to him to decide whether or not he gets to keep the change. That's up to me, and in fact, because his employer doesn't allow tips, it isn't even up to me.
I just can't get over the rudeness of kids, and have to wonder what kind of cretins they have for parents.
It's really a matter of starting when they are young and reminding them over and over again, until it's habit. Practice makes perfect.
One thing I expect my son to do (he's almost 17) is to hold that door for anyone really, if they are right there. Obviously you don't want to get stuck holding it for a parade of people, but getting him to recognize the mother struggling with a stroller, an elderly person, a pregnant lady, etc.
His best friend is honestly one of the most polite young men I've ever met. So not all teens are knuckle draggers But I do agree that things like cell phones has made people disconnected from what is going on around them and really, really rude. Can't stand hearing people blab on their cell phones in public.
I'm HUGE on manners, especially table manners. My husband, not so much. So it's a slight battle with the kids. I had them trained to say excuse me after a burp or passing gas. Now my husband has them saying "OH YEAH!!" or "THAT WAS THE BEST FART EVER!!" after! They are pretty good with their please and thank yous but still young for proper greeting (they still do the shy, hide behind parents thing sometimes).
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But I do agree that things like cell phones has made people disconnected from what is going on around them and really, really rude. Can't stand hearing people blab on their cell phones in public.
