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Where I'm from a lot of people are hardcore Christians. I grew up going to church etc. But now, at 16 I've decided I'm no longer Christian. I've thought about it for a long time, and I'm now an atheist.
However, my parents are still trying to force me to go to church and pray etc. I don't know why they can't just go and let me stay home or go to a friend's house or something. They can't force me to believe, so why force me to go? How do I convince them to just leave me alone?
What you're going through is normal. You're at the age where you start questioning all kinds of things, and rebelling against your parents in all sorts of ways. Right now at age 16, you probably think they pretty much suck at everything they do, say and think.
It's one reason kids leave home when they're 18 or so. You have only 2 more years to tough it out, and then you can get away from those monsters and make it on your own. You can work for a living, pay your own bills and make all your own decisions.
As you get older, you might begin to see your parents weren't really so awful, nor were their beliefs. That's all part of growing up too.
Bad comparision. You have to go to work. They don't have to go to church.
And the same can be said in the opposite. If the 16 year old feels so strongly that he doesn't want to go to church, the parents should respect his decision, or he won't respect them as he leaves the roost.
Respect is a two-way street.
A minor child supported by his parents doesn't get to feel strongly about anything. What if the parents were very anti-gun but the child felt very strongly about owning a gun? Too bad - the child doesn't get a say in it at all, it doesn't matter what the child believes.
I know a couple that had no religion, both mostly on the agnostic side - but mostly apathetic more than strongly agnostic. Their son found religion when he was in high school. He found a religion that encouraged him to save others and he decided to start with his parents and sister. He decided they needed to read from the Bible before meals.
The parents tolerated it for a while but then decided to clamp down and tell him it wasn't his house to decide and the preaching in the home had to end.
The parents rule the household, including the kids. When the kids grow up they move out and make their own household.
Well yes, Really. What you feel and what the OP's parents feel are likely two very separate things, and we aren't talking about YOU or YOUR beliefs.
His parents are having a hard time understanding that he has rejected their faith and while you and I might not be offended by it his are. So in order to not completely ruin the relationship with his family even though I agree that he should make up his own mind, he could do the mature thing a play along for a bit while he is still living in their house.
It is avoidable and unnecessary to hurt their feelings in this way. What's the point? He's not going to change their minds anytime soon. Sometimes you have to accept people for what they are, and that goes for children accepting their parents, not just the other way around.
I totally disagree that anyone should "fake it" - if he starts capitulating now, he may continue as a pattern to appease people and that is not an authentic way to live. I think he should do a "declaration of independence where his heart and mind are concerned." They don't own him. He is a minor only in the eyes of the law. In the eyes of the universe he is a full human being independent of his parents.
As Gibran said . . . paraphrasing . . . "Your children are not your children, they come through you but are not of you" - that's the gist of it.
I totally disagree that anyone should "fake it" - if he starts capitulating now, he may continue as a pattern to appease people and that is not an authentic way to live. I think he should do a "declaration of independence where his heart and mind are concerned." They don't own him. He is a minor only in the eyes of the law. In the eyes of the universe he is a full human being independent of his parents.
As Gibran said . . . paraphrasing . . . "Your children are not your children, they come through you but are not of you" - that's the gist of it.
I'm not telling him to "fake it". I'm telling him to be polite and considerate of other people's feelings (namely his parents whom he's going to have to live with for the next couple of years).
When he's able to leave home and not in the house 24 hours a day, he'll be able to act as fully human in the universe as he wants.
I'm not telling him to "fake it". I'm telling him to be polite and considerate of other people's feelings (namely his parents whom he's going to have to live with for the next couple of years).
When he's able to leave home and not in the house 24 hours a day, he'll be able to act as fully human in the universe as he wants.
Yes, he doesn't have to fake anything. I am Catholic whereas the rest of my family is not. My family is very Protestant. When I am at the houses of my family, I respect them enough to not bring up Catholic things that my family doesn't believe. When my family is at my house, they respect that it is our house and don't trash my beliefs. It's just respect.
You don't have to "fake" anything to sit politely in a pew for a couple of hours a week or less. It's being polite and respectful to his parents while he lives under their roof. He doesn't have to believe what the church (or his parents) tell him to believe. When he's an adult and out on his own he can do things differently, but for now they're still in charge of trying to raise their child to be a responsible, capable adult, and they feel that church is important to that goal. There are some battles worth fighting, but in most cases I don't think that having to attend church once a week is one of them. He should be respectful to his parents and to their beliefs, and with luck when he's older and is no longer attending church his parents will respect his right to follow his beliefs, even if they don't agree. Respect is indeed, as others have noted, a two-way street.
A minor child supported by his parents doesn't get to feel strongly about anything. What if the parents were very anti-gun but the child felt very strongly about owning a gun? Too bad - the child doesn't get a say in it at all, it doesn't matter what the child believes.
I know a couple that had no religion, both mostly on the agnostic side - but mostly apathetic more than strongly agnostic. Their son found religion when he was in high school. He found a religion that encouraged him to save others and he decided to start with his parents and sister. He decided they needed to read from the Bible before meals.
The parents tolerated it for a while but then decided to clamp down and tell him it wasn't his house to decide and the preaching in the home had to end.
The parents rule the household, including the kids. When the kids grow up they move out and make their own household.
Okay, yes I agree, Handel would do better just to go to church, but I don't agree that children "don't get to feel anything." Any child should still be allowed to communicate how they are feeling, what they believe etc. If a child is never allowed to do that that's an incredibly stifling and damaging environment to live in. I just think that's going way overboard. Yes, we should do all do things out of respect for our parents or family in general, but that doesn't mean we can't be our own person. I'm celebrating Christmas because it means a lot to my grandmother but at the same time, she knows I'm atheist. I don't rub it in her face and she doesn't shove her Christianity down my throat, but at least she lets me tell her what I believe. There's a balance between being completely authoritarian and being completely anarchistic.
Finster, I cannot rep you again, but I totally agree with everything you've said in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25
Avoidable? Not necessary? Really?
No, I disagree. I feel that my children are separate, autonomous beings and if they don't agree with my beliefs (agnostic) and decide to go to church you can bet your sweet bippy I would support that.
No matter what my friends or family thought.
And in your own thread, that would be relevant. But this is not your thread and it isn't even the thread from a parent's POV, it is a child asking for advice on how to deal with parents forcing him to do what he does not want to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
Well yes, Really. What you feel and what the OP's parents feel are likely two very separate things, and we aren't talking about YOU or YOUR beliefs.
His parents are having a hard time understanding that he has rejected their faith and while you and I might not be offended by it his are. So in order to not completely ruin the relationship with his family even though I agree that he should make up his own mind, he could do the mature thing a play along for a bit while he is still living in their house.
It is avoidable and unnecessary to hurt their feelings in this way. What's the point? He's not going to change their minds anytime soon. Sometimes you have to accept people for what they are, and that goes for children accepting their parents, not just the other way around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist
You don't have to "fake" anything to sit politely in a pew for a couple of hours a week or less. It's being polite and respectful to his parents while he lives under their roof. He doesn't have to believe what the church (or his parents) tell him to believe. When he's an adult and out on his own he can do things differently, but for now they're still in charge of trying to raise their child to be a responsible, capable adult, and they feel that church is important to that goal. There are some battles worth fighting, but in most cases I don't think that having to attend church once a week is one of them. He should be respectful to his parents and to their beliefs, and with luck when he's older and is no longer attending church his parents will respect his right to follow his beliefs, even if they don't agree. Respect is indeed, as others have noted, a two-way street.
Saddened that for whatever reason it seems that kids see the need to totally throw out the values and beliefs of their parents. Saddened that they see rebellion as the answer. Sure kids need to go out spread their wings and experience things on their own. That should be with their parents blessing and support and they should do it knowing that their parents support them and not see the need to totally break free by trashing whatthey have.
I am also saddened that we have moved into this "I can't prove God exists therefore I will disregard the church" thing. Its a sort of excuse. A sort of psudo scientific approach to life. Because I can't prove it, it must be wrong. Personally I think the dogged approach by those who wish to keep religeon out of schools has then caused the religeous right to dream up "intelligent design" and somehow have religeon masqurade as science. I would much prefer a middle ground of religeon and faith in our schools as it is a part of life. But don't pretend it is science with a hypothesis and a proof required.
Getting back to the OP, we do expect (read force if you like) our kids to go to church. I hope that as they grow that they will continue to go to church. I hope that they do not resent us. I do know that they make sacrifices and sometimes have to tell their friends - "Sorry, I can't come or do or whatever because I have to be with my family and / or I have to go to church". I hope that they will look back and say that in the end it was worth it.
I know I have an unpopular opinion, but here it is. Handel, I am proud of you for having the gumption to assert your beliefs and stick to them. I think that when parents try to force a child to attend church (or not), it is extremely disrespectful of that child's ability to think and reason. As a parent, the number one quality that I want to see in my adult children is the ability to make up their own minds about important issues. You can't really compare religious beliefs to whether or not a child should eat ice cream before dinner. That's not really an important issue. Sure, you can serve ice cream after dinner, and who knows, your kid might grow up and start every meal with a bowl of ice cream. But that's not an issue of morals, values, life, the world.
Handel, I assume your parents aren't physically dragging you to the car and forcing you to go (if they are, that's a whole different issue). Explain to them your beliefs. You have every right to your beliefs. Also, this is completely different from situations that others are bringing up about attending a service with relatives while they visit. That's a one-time nod to someone's traditions. This is a weekly event that obviously goes against your values and what you believe in.
There's no magic cut-off at the age of 18. That's not a magic time where kids suddenly become adults and learn to live life independently. Especially at the age of 16, you SHOULD be making decisions for yourself about ethics and morals. Handel, you have my complete support and encouragement here, and I'm really sorry you're going through this.
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