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I simply followed your train of thought when you were trying to prove your point, and I didn't say cheat, I said SLEEP at a woman's house, that's not the same thing, technically there is nothing wrong (it's not cheating or illegal) with him sleeping at any woman's house, but I'm sure he would not even think of doing something so obviously disrespectful to you because he acts like an adult. You don't have "rules" because you both act like adults and respect the obvious, this kid doesn't have basic respect for his parents so they are under no obligation to continue to let him live with them and take care of all his financial needs.
A true adult has respect for those around him, the kid in question hasn't learned that. It's not a matter of whether he should be having sex or not, I have no issue with that, it's a respect issue that shows his maturity level hasn't reached his legal status and his parents aren't helping him to grow up by letting this continue.
Reasonable expectation. It's reasonable to expect a spouse to sleep at home with you. It's unreasonable to expect an 18 year old to not sleep at someone else's home.
So basically, it comes down to two ideas of parenting. One idea is that adult children living in the home must abide by the parents' rules, and the other is adult children are autonomous adults who should be treated as such. I was raised under the first (that's why I was on my own at 19), and I greatly envied my friends whose parents allowed them their comings and goings. I don't think either is inherently wrong. I think being on my own so young was a great thing, but my friends who had looser parents and lived at home longer turned out just fine too.
Reasonable expectation. It's reasonable to expect a spouse to sleep at home with you. It's unreasonable to expect an 18 year old to not sleep at someone else's home.
I agree with you, but the part of the scenario that makes me uncomfortable is that he is sleeping with the girlfriend at her parents' house. Even if my parents had allowed that, I wouldn't have felt right about it. If he was sleeping at the girlfriend's apartment, it would be different, I think. I don't know. I don't feel strongly either way, but it's an interesting discussion.
So basically, it comes down to two ideas of parenting. One idea is that adult children living in the home must abide by the parents' rules, and the other is adult children are autonomous adults who should be treated as such. I was raised under the first (that's why I was on my own at 19), and I greatly envied my friends whose parents allowed them their comings and goings. I don't think either is inherently wrong. I think being on my own so young was a great thing, but my friends who had looser parents and lived at home longer turned out just fine too.
Once you live on your own, you never want to live with your parents again. My mother had a strange rule: Be home before the sun came up. She was more worried about what the neighbors would think. Granted, this rule was after I moved back to their house briefly when I was in my early 20s after living on my own in another city. It would have been crazy for them to impose an unrealistic curfew on me after I had lived on my own for a few years. I only stayed there for a few months---just long enough to find a job and save money for my own apartment. But during that time, I respected my mother's wishes and made sure I was home before sunrise. Afterall, it was a reasonable request.
I agree with you, but the part of the scenario that makes me uncomfortable is that he is sleeping with the girlfriend at her parents' house. Even if my parents had allowed that, I wouldn't have felt right about it. If he was sleeping at the girlfriend's apartment, it would be different, I think. I don't know. I don't feel strongly either way, but it's an interesting discussion.
Once we were adults, my sisters and I had lots of boyfriends sleep over. It was more for logistical reasons: They were college boyfriends who were visiting from out of town. But they were not permitted to sleep in our bedrooms. We didn't even ask. Goodness! We KNEW we weren't allowed to sleep with our boyfriends. We weren't allowed to have boyfriends even upstairs when we were growing up! But our parents were realistic when we were much older adults and recognized non-married relationships. If we lived with a partner, they certainly didn't make us sleep in separate rooms as when we were visiting.
He presented this on the parenting board which is infamous for debating the rights and wrongs of things.
I think he is wrong in trying to control his adult son so completely. The OP himself has stated he has much more of an issue with the son's attitude vs his sleeping at his girlfriend's home.
I don't see how you keep missing the point. Yes, he posted on the parenting forum...so he is asking a parenting question. If the question was a generic query as to the rights of 18 yo in general, he could have put the question on the Great Debates forum. The "rights and wrongs" in this situation are not the ones you are arguing. As a parent and a homeowner, the OP has every right to determine the rules for someone living at his home - yes, even if they are over 18 (and especially if that person is dependant on him still - not paying rent or contributing for food and not doing the requested chores)...be it paying rent, being home at a certain time, whatever. Whether you consider his rules to be unfair isn't relevant to the situation. You can determine the rules when you are in his situation, you don't get to determine them for everyone else. Just like others may find some rules at your house to be not something we'd personally do. It's your house and you get to make those rules. Children under 18 must abide by them, adults over 18 get to choose to abide by them or to move out or to try to negotiate something different. But, in reality a non-rent paying, non-chore doing, non-respectful person doesn't have much negotiating power - even if they are 18.
Last edited by maciesmom; 12-27-2010 at 01:46 PM..
Parents of teens never have it easy and have to learn to pick their battles. Unless the idea of premarital sex goes against the OP's religious beliefs & ranks high on the list of DON'T's, it probably can be overlooked if his son is getting good grades in school, working part-time & doing his share of household chores. No teen is going to follow every single family rule and parents have to decide for themselves which ones take priority.
I had one Jewish friend in college who took out loans so he could move into the dorms specifically because his conservative parents expected him to attend Shabbat service every Friday night and generally restricted all his Saturday activities. Although he said there were lots of cross words & tension at the time, both he & his parents knew it was the right step, so that he could grow into his own man.
I agree. I think the real issue is the child does not have the same moral beliefs as the parents and this is probably the reason for the disrespect.
And if you can't respect your parents' rules, then it's probably time to stop sponging off of them. People who act like grownups get grownup privileges. Scumming off your family for room and board as an adult is NOT acting like a grownup.
If you want to be an autonomous adult, pay your own way like an autonomous adult.
Reasonable expectation. It's reasonable to expect a spouse to sleep at home with you. It's unreasonable to expect an 18 year old to not sleep at someone else's home.
It's not just about him sleeping at someone else's house, the poster has stated it's a respect issue, he seems to be disrespectful in may ways. I don't think his parents care if he sleeps at a friends house, but if he's going around talking about how he is sleeping at his girlfriends in the same bed that is disrespectful to his parents who have different values. It sounds like he treats his parents poorly, that's very immature, and he needs to leave so he can properly grow up. Maybe you will understand when your kids are older that you must treat them according to how mature they act, not just their age. From what I have read this is about an 18yr old who needs to learn adult respect, it's not about sex or control.
I didn't have any rules after I turned 18, but I didn't need any, I understood basic human respect for other people. I respected my parents, probably because they demanded it my entire life, they never spoiled me. If I was going to be out very late or all night I would call so they didn't worry (they never had to ask me to do that), I never flaunted sex because I knew that would upset them. I bought all my own clothes, personal items and a lot of food. I also worked and went to school. I acted like an adult, not a rebellious teenager so I deserved to be treated like an adult, if I had acted disrespectful to my parents they would have rightly asked me to improve my behavior or leave.
Once we were adults, my sisters and I had lots of boyfriends sleep over. It was more for logistical reasons: They were college boyfriends who were visiting from out of town. But they were not permitted to sleep in our bedrooms. We didn't even ask. Goodness! We KNEW we weren't allowed to sleep with our boyfriends. We weren't allowed to have boyfriends even upstairs when we were growing up! But our parents were realistic when we were much older adults and recognized non-married relationships. If we lived with a partner, they certainly didn't make us sleep in separate rooms as when we were visiting.
Hopes, I'd definitely allow boyfriend sleepovers under these circumstances. I'd much rather have a boy on my couch than have him driving home tired in the middle of the night.
Out of curiosity, I asked my husband what he thought (his parents were very liberal), and he said that when he was 18, he could come and go as long as he called home if he was staying away for the night. However, he also said that if his parents ever found out that he was sleeping in a girl's bed under her parents' roof, they would have smacked him silly.
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Granted, this rule was after I moved back to their house briefly when I was in my early 20s after living on my own in another city. It would have been crazy for them to impose an unrealistic curfew on me after I had lived on my own for a few years. I only stayed there for a few months---just long enough to find a job and save money for my own apartment. But during that time, I respected my mother's wishes and made sure I was home before sunrise. Afterall, it was a reasonable request.