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I hardly consider these places fine dining...and where I am at (again this is just WHERE I AM at) and where I grew up(so cal)....
Olive garden, tgi fridays, outback, cheesecake factory, panera bread, starbucks, friendlys, IHOP...oh heck..any major "chain" restaurant is hardly considered "fine dining".
Okay that has nothing to do with people who cannot afford to go their..but lets be honest...Olive garden..fine dining? Jeez...in southern california, and our here in dutchess..its soccer mom heaven!!!! And the Older generations up here...LOVE the kids....that doesnt mean we let them run wild..but there is a distinct difference in the look on their faces when they smile at us and look at our kids and every so nicely and politely ask "how old is your child" and WE answer and they say(with a wonderful look in their eye)..I have a"grandaughter/grandson that age"..and you can "tell" they are thinking about them, that very moment in time.
ON the other hand...you have the less tolerant people who assume that these "fine dining" establishments are theres for the taking in the afternoons becuase they are retired and "gosh darn it" I have already had my fill of kids.
Again we chose to live in a FAMILY friendly place..not a retirement community...not because we disdain the older generation..but we are at a different stage in our life...we are in the Peanut butter and jelly stage, the dora the explorer stage..and you know what..WE WANT TO ENJOY EVERY MINUTE OF IT..
And when the kids are in college and out of the house...perhaps we will live on Hilton Head Island and enjoy our golf community with people our own age, with hobbies similar to ours an swap stories of our own grandchildren...
But for now...I am enjoying my kids..and for those that dont remember that time...or are stuck in a different generation, not willing to just enjoy life..well that is your choice..but please..dont see a child, cringe and assume the worst...because we as parents can see it over that "ajata" face you give us..and if our kids are acting appropriately in a public place...guess what...most likely we will enjoy ourselves while you sit and sulk.
And please dont tell me to take my kids to fast food...I am avoiding that at all costs because I dont want to contribute or have my children be another statistic to the childhood obesity problem..plus I have issues with fast food establishments anyway.
I read a post on here today that scratched at a sore spot, but it was a few days old, so I didn't post to it.
Why are people getting so intolerant of kids? I was eating at a diner/cafe type restaurant last week at 6 p.m. when an older man approached us and asked us to take our son outside because he 'was disturbing a quiet dinner with his wife'. I immediately got my feathers ruffled and probably looked like it, so he turns and talked to my husband instead. My issue was, my son is 1 and babbles sometimes like he's supposed to, he was not screaming, whining or crying at all. I chalked it up to Florida rudeness, but after reading the 'make your kids behave' thread I see it's alot of people.
Anyway, i told the man, that's why we we eat early and this is not a romantic place it's a family restaurant! I feel sorry for his wife if he thinks she's not worth more than $10. How does anyone who has ever had kids believe they are going to be absolutely quiet for 2 hours? That is what would not be normal! ( He said he takes his grandkids outside when they make any noise, they must hate when he babysits) In the airport the other day, I also heard an older couple lamenting about how people used to have to dress up to fly and give me a dirty look when my son started whining. (I did immediately get up to walk him around, even leaving my bags, just to be courteous) The end point is, do you think people are expecting too much? Of course in the 'good old days' you could go out and not have to listen to kids, but things were more expensive. If you want that then go to a nice restaurant or bar where you're less likely to see children. Don't go somewhere that caters to them and get mad cause they're there! If you want the same experience on a plane, then go private! The opportunities still exist for you to have that experience, but be honest, if you don't want to pay for it, lower your standards and stop blaming parents.
Of course, there are genuinely some out of control children, but for the most part it's relative and it seems what people were complaining about is normal, developmentally appropriate behavior. I'm sorry that the only place with a playground is McDonald's, but we're not going to eat there every week because of some sourpuss.
BTW, the server and manger apologized profusely for the guy's behavior and said something to him! So I guess I'll thank my husband for calming me down once again and not cussing him out like i wanted to. Then i would have looked like the horse's behind instead of him.
Well, people who pay to go out for a meal don't like being disturbed by kids. What t=you consider babbling was probably annoying to the couple. Parents seem to think that everything their kid does is cute.
Yes, there is a low tolerance for kids in this country. I remember when I was taking my then 22 month old to Europe I had so many people tell me that since people in other countries actually liked kids, it would make my trip easier. And that was true. Total strangers would come up and want to help me, offer my child something, pat him on the head, even babysit for me. There was a genuine fondness for kids (except from the Americans on the same tour with us).
One time when my son was 3 and we were standing in line (in Dallas) at a grocery store. My son had his back to a man who had his back to my son. They were back to back and neither one knew the other was there. My son reached back and accidently brushed this guy's jacket with his index finger. I saw it. The girlfriend of this guy who saw this went nuts, yelling at me about why can't I control my child from touching other people. It was such an overreaction. I saw the whole thing. The guy didn't even know what she was talking about. It was so bizarre. It's like the kid-haters are searching and looking for reasons to complain about kids.
On the other hand, it seems that kids have gotten worse overall behavior-wise and parents get used to tuning it out. Not saying this was you, Kelabu. Your situation sounds like the one I encountered at the grocery store. Total overreaction.
Judging from the parents who write in to Mean Mom, AskMeanMom.com, and from what I see in public every day....parents are clueless! Kids running around and knocking people over, yelling at the top of their lungs on a city bus, throwing things in the grocery store, even taking bites out of fruit and the parents putting it back without paying for it! Parents should wake up!!
Well, people who pay to go out for a meal don't like being disturbed by kids. What t=you consider babbling was probably annoying to the couple. Parents seem to think that everything their kid does is cute.
I agree that plenty of parents are clueless and/or think everything their kid does is cute. And yes, children need to be taught manners, and not merely by instruction--they should be taught by example.
However, I don't see how a 4 year old talking to strangers can be equated to a 1 year old babbling to himself.
I agree. I have no issues with children in restaurants that cater to families and 1 year old babbling is totally normal, I wouldn't bat an eye at happy baby "talk." The problem is when the kids whine, scream, run around, climb over booths, and generally disturb other diners while the parent turns a blind eye is where I get annoyed. Family restaurant or not, that behavior is unacceptable. The problem is the good parents out in public seem to be a minority these days while the ones letting their kids run wild are more the norm.
I agree completely. When I take my kids out in public it is my obligation to make sure they do not disturb others.
I think a lot of people just want to be pissed about something. I don't remember the last time a child disturbed my meal or screamed bloody murder on a plane. In part, because it just doesn't bother me much unless it gets out of hand. I live in a very family friendly city, but I have never gotten the feeling that people don't like us or our 13 month old daughter when we walk into a restaurant. In fact, it seems that 9/10 people 60+ come over and talk to her and tell us about their grandkids. At this point, she seems to enjoy being out. We give her some crayons and some bread and she is pretty happy. She usually behaves pretty well when out, other than babbling sometimes, which is hard to do anything about. If she does get fussy, I take her outside. Maybe I'm thicker skinned than most, but if someone gets irate about a lot of these things, maybe they need to reevaluate their perspective a little. It simply isn't worth letting your bloodpressure rise because a child babbled during your meal at a family restaurant.
Most parents here seem to do a good job with their kids. Maybe it is different in different parts of the country, but for every screaming, wild, out of control kid I see, I see 20 well behaved children.
I think if single people want to dine at a family oriented place, they should expect noise and not get angry if there are a lot of kids around (unless of course something totally outragreous is happening) but under normal circumstances, you have to expect kids to make some noise.
And at the same time, if a family decides to bring kids to a posh place that caters to hip singles or a very high end fine dining place, you should know your child can handle being quiet before bring them or at least know how to correct them properly and if you can't do any of those things, you should realize people probably will get mad and with reason.
Certain eateries have certain core markets they cater to, everyone has the right to eat there, but if you bring an element that disturbs the atmosphere it can get sticky with other diners.
This is the attitude that makes people resent your children and the overall patience with them go down. Do you really think it is okay to say that 200 other passengers on an airplane should pay for a private plane just so your kid can do whatever he wants? Why are your and your kids feelings somehow more important than the 200 other people on the plane? We should all pay more for dining and airfare so your kid can run amock? That is ridiculous. That attitude is the reason so many kids these days are growing up brats, rude, and irresponsible. I raised three and I know from experience that you can make them behave if you try and do it from day one. The ONLY place we ever let our children or grandchildren run wild is Chucky Cheese or outside at a McDonalds etc in the play area. The few times we HAD to fly with them instead of drive we took the red-eye because we knew they would be exhausted, listen to their headphones for five minutes, and sleep the rest of the way. We had one that had an ear popping problem on a plane once and cried so my wife sat in the bathroom with him the whole flight and I bought drinks for the plane. We felt terrible that he was ruining the flight for all of those other people and we did everything possible (including apologizing) to minimize the effect on the other passengers. I also know (because I have done it) that sometimes people will act like they think your kid is being cute because they don't want to be rude to your face but when they walk off they say "what a little brat!" I thought everything my kids did was the cutest thing ever but I was smart enough to realize I was thinking with my "Daddy brain" and that everyone else doesn't feel the same about them. Maybe grownups these days should spend a little time learning how to be considerate of OTHER GROWNUPS then teach this to your children.
Ok, despite my (and other recent parents in this thread) best effort to remain civil and on topic some have a very hard time addressing specific points rather than posting a laundry list of your complaints about kids. Maybe pulling some of your comments out will help you since it's apparently hard for you.
Nowhere did anyone say their kids feelings are more important than 200 other peoples... but just as, YES! I have said at least twice that I am not talking about screaming and running around. (Using pharses like running amuck, wild and brats is just inciteful and not all what this thread is about ) Everyone puts up with noise from IPODs of people sitting beside you, snoring, talking, loud drunks etc. THAT'S PART OF BEING ON A COMMERCIAL FLIGHT. So if my child decides he wants to "talk" at no louder volume, no I don't care about your feelings. What is probably annoying is if they repeat the same phrase or whatever, (just guessing) That's why I said we eat earlier and at places that are kid friendly. So yes, if you think you're going to get white glove service and candlelight and QUIET at that type of place. You are the one who's in the wrong restaurant.
So if you want to be cheap, then have resonable expectations, which I believe I have already said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc76
I think there are a lot of parents who perhaps don't "parent" as well as they should out there. However, I think a big portion of it is that people eat out, fly and generally take their kids out in public MUCH more than they used to. If you eat out a couple times a week or fly once a month, your chances of coming across a bad kid situation are much greater. I rarely remember going out to eat growing up. I didn't fly until I was 19. Now, I take our 13 month old out to restaurants a couple times a week and she has taken 6 round trip flights because we have friends and family all over the country. We rarely have problems with her, but sometimes she does "jabber", which is pretty impossible to control. The plane is more difficult because you are trapped. We've only had one leg of one trip that was really hard because her ears wouldn't pop. However, unless she is screaming uncontrollably, I'm not going to go sit in the bathroom, that's insane.
Another big aspect is that people seem so judgemental now. It seems like people are just looking to pass judgement on others to make themselves feel better.
Exactly! That's what I was saying. People used to see going out to eat as much more of a treat and it was less affordable, so people aren't going to remember seeing them out because they weren't there or parents couldn't afford to bring them. Things have changed and people want them to be the same in the ways they want. They don't want to pay old prices (comparably) for airline tickets, but they want the same atmosphere. I'm still looking for some reputable links for those that will disagree, but here's one I found real quick that addresses changes in prices adjusted for inflation. What Flying Was Like In The 1960s
I agree with you that people are just so judgemental now, and it's getting worse in so many ways other than children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by briarwood
One thing I've noticed over the years is that people really have lost the ability to genuinely give kids kid friendly activites. Growing up in NYC, My mom took me to parks, playgrounds, the beach, Mets games, Coney and other places where I could be a child.
I think the rise in ADHD and other "disorders" is the fact that kids don't get to run around outside anymore. Go to the park. Play in your yard. Take them to see IMAX.
Sorry, but the Olive Garden is simply not a place I want to see children. Frankly, they really don't want to be there either. I don't care how "intelligent" you think little Suzy/Jimmy is, they're probably not going to tolerate the Opera/Scorsese Movie/Fine dining establishment or any one of the other atrocious places I find kids these days.
oK, I was with you until you said Olive Garden. Whether you want to see it or not Olive Garden provides crayons and kid menus. Somebody else already got onto you about that and the movies so I won't go any further. But, people do not in general, give kids enough outside time. I think due in large part to video games and TV...which TADA keeps them quiet.
[quote=2KidsforMe;1104075 That being said, my beef is with the folks who assume that 1. my kids are going to misbehave, and 2. they have no business being anywhere in public, even a family type place or a Saturday morning flight to Orlando. That's all. The hostility I feel sometimes, by doing no more than just walking into a place with the kids, makes me sad, and I think it is a bit unfair. And Sponger, you should feel very good about what you did on that plane. You probably did more for that mother than you may ever know. A little kindness and compassion is not such a bad thing. You sound like a real gentelman. Most of us parents are trying the best that we can.[/QUOTE]
It is unfair. My flight that was talking about... I did all the same things, snacks toys, flight times. I even look for seats to ourselves when i have a chioce of location. My son didn't cry or even babble on this trip, but you should have seen the look I got when we went to our seat! Open hostilty.Then the woman proceeds to TAKE HER SHOES OFF. so I have to look at her toes and smell her feet the whole damn flight. Now I think that is much more rude than me 'daring' to travel with my family, but I didn't treat her that way. The original point was just as you Sponger pointed out. People are not tolerant or compassionate of kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42
Wow. I'm glad I'm not the neighbor of some people in here! I'd be afraid if my house was burning down and I was yelling for help from an upstairs window, you'd just give me a dirty look for getting ash on your lawn and then log on to the internet to complain about how rude I was to you.
Maybe she didn't, but she sure as heck needed one.
People say that kids used to be seen and not heard. But they seem to have forgotten that you used to be neighborly to your fellow man as well. You used to take a whole ten seconds to hold the door open for the person with the arm full of groceries. You used to give up your seat to the little old lady or man. You used to wave the guy in front of you to go ahead and turn into your lane.
You used to ask if you could help with a handful of noisy kids. Or you used to ask to be re-seated. Or you used to at least smile and roll your eyes at the screaming coming from the table behind you and chalk it up to bad luck, rather than sit and stew about it or go lecture some already-beleagured parent.
You used to do something if you saw somebody's kids getting themselves into trouble and sure as f--k you used to do something if you saw them in danger running into a street or parking lot! You used to lend a goddamn hand to somebody having a hard time. At least, that's how my parents taught me all the waaaaay back in the 80's and 90's. I would've thought everyone's parents would teach them the same things.
Unless maybe you were raised in a barn? Which is what my parents yelled at me when--in the process of asking about my flights--they found out I never introduced myself. (Exept to the kids)
Man I could kiss you! That woman will probably remember you forever.
on one hand you state:" Everyone puts up with noise from IPODs of people sitting beside you, snoring, talking, loud drunks etc. THAT'S PART OF BEING ON A COMMERCIAL FLIGHT"; yet you go on to complain about someone removing their shoes on a plane. Confusing. I didn't know there were written rules of conduct we were to expect when paying the gawd awful expensive cost of tickets to fly. I simply expect consideration and I give it as well. Are you booking your seats online ahead of time when flying so as to select your seats?
Also I don't think drunks are allowed to fly. I've never encountered a drunk but have encountered kids kicking the back of my seat for 8 hours with mom sitting next to them, never reprimanding them. I've never been on a plane with anyone talking loud at all except for screaming children. I will say that most of the time the parent(s) are trying to calm the child(ren) but not all the time. You speak of people not being tolerant or compassionate to kids; but what about the same applying to non kids? It works both ways, yes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelabu
It is unfair. My flight that was talking about... I did all the same things, snacks toys, flight times. I even look for seats to ourselves when i have a chioce of location. My son didn't cry or even babble on this trip, but you should have seen the look I got when we went to our seat! Open hostilty.Then the woman proceeds to TAKE HER SHOES OFF. so I have to look at her toes and smell her feet the whole damn flight. Now I think that is much more rude than me 'daring' to travel with my family, but I didn't treat her that way. The original point was just as you Sponger pointed out. People are not tolerant or compassionate of kids.
Man I could kiss you! That woman will probably remember you forever.
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