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I've been amazed that while the OP seems to be baiting the thread towards the conclusion that all bullies are absolute demonic monstrosities that should be sacrificed on the altar of justice...the majority of responders to the thread have been posting about how their children overcame bullying by standing up for themselves and refusing to be a victim.
I stand by my long stated position that the solution starts in your own home. Not just teaching your child not to be a bully, but also teaching them how to respond to bullies and stand up for themselves. All of the seemingly righteous adult might in the world isn't going to end the problem, the solution lies with the kids themselves as it always has unless a major line is crossed in terms of gang assault or things like that, which are matters for the police, not the school.
If anything we are doing a massive disservice to our kids by enacting "zero-tolerance" policies and forcing them to rely on omni-present adult protection to handle their issues. When it comes down to it, we have no ability to change the bully, but we can empower the victims.
My son is what you would call "meek". He was also the biggest kid in his class since age 3. Only once did another boy try to bully him and that was in 3rd grade. The bully was actually a 5th grade special ed student who probably thought my son was older than he actually was. When my son told me about it, mostly grabbing and pushing, I said he should just give him a strong shove (although I was prepared to talk to the principal if necessary). It's wasn't so much fighting back as it was letting the other kid know he wasn't just going to stand there and take it, which he had been doing up until then. I didn't hear about anything happening after that and the older kid went to a different school the next year and that was that.
I have little patience with bullies, I don't care WHAT their personal problems are.
This is a tough issue for sure. Kids fight a certain amount, no matter what. I remember small playground fights that were no big deal. The 2 fighters would be friends again next day. Many kids give & take & do a certain amount of bullying. Some seem to live for it. They are the dangerous ones. I didn't really get bullied consistently up to about 4th grade. I was a good fighter & didn't mind punching out an attacker. I began to mellow out & get away from scrapping after that. Then, bullies came at me from every angle, some older than me, sometimes 2 or 3. I found I had to start fighting again to survive. My parents (teachers) didn't like it & said I should report, not fight back. That only works to a small degree.
Aggressive kids understand 1 thing, force. Being nice is no solution. This was all back in the 60's & 70's.
Fast forward a few decades. We have a strong willed daughter. She's been on both ends. In lower grades, she was mainly bad about taking stuff from other kids, very impulsive. She would sometimes kick a kid who insulted her, etc. I told her early on that that behavior could easily get her a punch in the nose & that we wouldn't defend her in suck a case. Later on, she was bullied by a few kids & would report it. Some teachers helped, some didn't. One teacher told her to quit tattling all the time. I told her to do all she could to get along but not to be a punching bag. If someone pushed too far, let them have it full force & I will back her up at school. My wife still argues that. She was raised a Quaker, with pacifism being a cornerstone. She dealt with lots of insults & teasing, bad enough on its own, but never with physical assaults. I argue with her that pacifism only gets one a bruised face with bullies. At any rate, I did get a call 1 day from ast principal that she'd punched a kid in the stomach but it was known he'd been picking on her & they decided to discipline him, not her. I thanked her & told how we'd instructed her, etc.
Fighting should not be the first reaction. But please do not teach your kids pacifism. Bullies are like wolves going after sheep. The weakest & most tame get the worst of it all. A teacher can't be everywhere, bullies are experts at harassing without witnesses & also at making the victim seem like the aggressor. If your kids get beat up, also decide if they were bullying to start with. If they are disrespectful & disobedient to you, they are very likely to bully other kids at school. If your kid is mostly well behaved, has friends, etc. he most likely is not a bully. Give your kids permission to defend themselves & stand up for them at school if something happens. If they bully & get beat up, don't even call anyone. Say "you got what you asked for".
This was only a movie & the scene was extreme. But it has a lesson of sorts. An aggressive nanny saw a bully hit the boy she cared for. She yanked the bully off him, twisted his arm nearly double & told him not to ever try that again. He ran off. A minute later, he was back with his dad. Dad yelled that she had no business abusing his kid. She said, "he attacked Johnny & I stopped it". Dad says, "so he plays rough, big deal". She replied, "I play rough too & next time I'll skin your brat like a rabbit, right in front of you". Dad backed off, could be heard telling son, "stay clear of that boy from now on". No one should make or carry out that specific threat. But some people are like that dad, who think their kids can do no wrong, that nothing should ever come back on them. Those kids will bully until they are stopped.
My son went through a week of having nightmares, one was so bad that he got up at 1 am and would not go back to sleep untill that night at 10 pm. Found out that some boy(who I actually feel bad for) told him he was going to go down to death with the devil. Of course my husband and I explained that he is not going to the devil and that God loves him. We told my son that he still needs to be kind to this boy, but he does not have to be his friend. If I found out my son was a bully I would be heartbroken and ticked off, he would be in hot water
When I started kindergarten, another boy was bullying me on the school bus. I tried to befriend him, but he still bullied me (nothing too bad, just pushing and shoving and stuff). Finally one day I punched him in the nose and that put an end to it.
I think sometimes parents just need to toughen their kids up a bit.
When I started kindergarten, another boy was bullying me on the school bus. I tried to befriend him, but he still bullied me (nothing too bad, just pushing and shoving and stuff). Finally one day I punched him in the nose and that put an end to it.
I think sometimes parents just need to toughen their kids up a bit.
Dittos, my point exactly. If enough kids do that, the bully will back off.
Dittos, my point exactly. If enough kids do that, the bully will back off.
That would be great if this was 1950's Mayberry.
Kids are dealing with much more severe instances of bullying than the "let's put our fishing poles down and scuffle in the playground and that's the end of it" type that we might have experienced in school.
Just last week, in my city, they arrested 7 13-14 year old boys for beating another 13 year old after school and hanging him from fence, amongst other things. They tortured him for at least 20 minutes. 7 to 1. Nice.
The 7 bullies were charged with kidnapping and aggravated assault. Apparently when they caught the 7th boy he cried and vomited on the way to the police station. I think that being arrested had far more impact on him than the victim going up and punching him in the nose, which these days, might have prompted the 7 kids to pull knives and stab him to death.
I agree that we shouldn't bring our kids up to be victims. But we also have to face facts that it's a different world than the one we went to school in, and not that expect the same solution to the problem will have the desired effect now.
Kids are dealing with much more severe instances of bullying than the "let's put our fishing poles down and scuffle in the playground and that's the end of it" type that we might have experienced in school.
Just last week, in my city, they arrested 7 13-14 year old boys for beating another 13 year old after school and hanging him from fence, amongst other things. They tortured him for at least 20 minutes. 7 to 1. Nice.
The 7 bullies were charged with kidnapping and aggravated assault. Apparently when they caught the 7th boy he cried and vomited on the way to the police station. I think that being arrested had far more impact on him than the victim going up and punching him in the nose, which these days, might have prompted the 7 kids to pull knives and stab him to death.
I agree that we shouldn't bring our kids up to be victims. But we also have to face facts that it's a different world than the one we went to school in, and not that expect the same solution to the problem will have the desired effect now.
Agree that bullying nowadays is not the same as when I was a kid. One big factor: Technology. IMO, bullies are often big cowards inside. Well, the internet provides them with a nice "safe" place to sling their crap. Bullying these days can be done anonymously from any ol' random place. It's also much larger in scale and has a longer lasting impact - it can be broadcast to a much larger audience and it often can't be erased bc of the peculiarities of the internet.
TV is the worst offender. Last night I walked in on my wife watching this this seemingly innocuous tv show called "Glee." Didn't like the show much before - really hate it now. The particular scene I walked in on was a group of football players throwing what looked like cherry slushies onto this handicapped kid. I was like, "What the *&%$* is up with that?!" She told me that kind of thing happens all the time on the show. It was like some reoccurring joke. Well, I don't know - maybe for some of y'all that's funny - but to me, it is not even remotely funny. That's sick, stupid, and wrong. What a nice message - and right after the Super Bowl, too.
I played football in high school - guess what? if that happened at my school, we'd be severely reprimanded - we'd be suspended and wouldn't be able to play for a few games. But this stupid tv show portrayed it as being "normal," "acceptable," and "funny." Nope - totally unacceptable. And this show isn't even one of the "bad" ones - don't even get me started on the MTV or other teen oriented crap.
Last - and probably the biggest factor - it all comes down to the parents. Parents need to be held accountable. Now, I do understand that there are some kids with issues out there with upstanding parents - but the vast majority of cases involve kids who are probably either bullied at home or totally ignored/neglected. If a kid is found to be a bully, there needs to be repercussions for both the child and the parent/guardian. I think there needs to be more "crying and puking" parents being transported to the police stations out there.
Oh - and I agree, the zero tolerance policy is a joke. Again - punish the bully - not the kid who is merely defending themselves. I think there are kids out there that would be okay to stand up to a bully, except they are afraid of getting punished at school due to some asinine policy.
Kids are dealing with much more severe instances of bullying than the "let's put our fishing poles down and scuffle in the playground and that's the end of it" type that we might have experienced in school.
Just last week, in my city, they arrested 7 13-14 year old boys for beating another 13 year old after school and hanging him from fence, amongst other things. They tortured him for at least 20 minutes. 7 to 1. Nice.
The 7 bullies were charged with kidnapping and aggravated assault. Apparently when they caught the 7th boy he cried and vomited on the way to the police station. I think that being arrested had far more impact on him than the victim going up and punching him in the nose, which these days, might have prompted the 7 kids to pull knives and stab him to death.
I agree that we shouldn't bring our kids up to be victims. But we also have to face facts that it's a different world than the one we went to school in, and not that expect the same solution to the problem will have the desired effect now.
I agree that Mayberry doesn't exist any more. But pacifism is still not the answer. If the kid did not fight at all, he would simply be attacked & victimized that much faster. Time for police involvement when a gang attack like that occurs.
Well, a 7-on-1 beat down goes quite a bit further than the typical bullying I think was being originally discussed. Absolutely those kids should have been arrested. Hopefully the police (and later their parents, I hope), but the good ole "fear of God" into those punks.
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