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It was a very long time ago when I was a teen, but I seem to recall I was very self-absorbed . . .I spent most of my time with friends, or tanning, "getting ready," etc.
Took money, wantonly from my parents . . . thought everything was "all about me" - went through ten new tires, got tons of speeding tickets - was generally reckless . . . I am not sure when that stopped or when I began to grow up.
I am wondering about a teen boy (age 18) who is very self absorbed . . .he lies to get his way, to cover up stuff he did not do (I seem to remember a lot of lying that I did) . . .he is not thoughtful or empathetic at all (does not care if he hurts your feelings, doesn't remember birthdays or holidays with a card or anything --- does lie that he bought you a card and left it somewhere . . . )
I am praying he will outgrow this selfishness, but cannot find any information that instructs what is "normal" teen selfishness vs. pathological selfishness.
In his relationships with peers, he is also very selfish - doesn't offer his friends food for instance and eats in front of them - was not a good boyfriend to his girlfriend because it was all about him . . .
As a young child, he was very sweet and thoughtful and made handmade cards at holidays and birthdays but those days are long gone and I am not sure if it is a result of testosterone, development, or what.
And I also don't know if it is a gender thing not to be empathetic or not to buy cards and gifts.
I am also wondering if I should continue to give him money and stuff when he is so selfish (I am a relative in a supportive position, not a parent).
I have stated that my feelings are hurt when he does not do "x" but he gets very defensive and does not change behavior. He claims to "love" me but I don't know if that is just a manipulation or what. I honestly don't understand people who do not care about the feelings of other people when they are informed their actions have resulted in hurt.
Feedback?
Last edited by imcurious; 05-10-2011 at 03:22 PM..
I have four children, one is like you described above, the others, while thoughtless at times, were not completely self centered. The one I have, who was a user, manipulative, complete socio-pathic liar, and had no issues with using others to get what he wanted. There is a difference. I was conviced my "deviant" son would end up in jail, or worse. He did not...but I stopped giving him money, or letting him live with me years ago. He needed to learn the consequences of his actions, and learn the value of money. Tough love, is tougher on parents to enforce it. But in the end, my son, who is now 24, is more respectful, thoughtful, and considerate of others...of course, it took being in the military for 6 years to get him there!
It was a very long time ago when I was a teen, but I seem to recall I was very self-absorbed . . .I spent most of my time with friends, or tanning, "getting ready," etc.
Took money, wantonly from my parents . . . thought everything was "all about me" - went through ten new tires, got tons of speeding tickets - was generally reckless . . . I am not sure when that stopped or when I began to grow up.
I am wondering about a teen boy (age 18) who is very self absorbed . . .he lies to get his way, to cover up stuff he did not do (I seem to remember a lot of lying that I did) . . .he is not thoughtful or empathetic at all (does not care if he hurts your feelings, doesn't remember birthdays or holidays with a card or anything --- does lie that he bought you a card and left it somewhere . . . )
I am praying he will outgrow this selfishness, but cannot find any information that instructs what is "normal" teen selfishness vs. pathological selfishness.
In his relationships with peers, he is also very selfish - doesn't offer his friends food for instance and eats in front of them - was not a good boyfriend to his girlfriend because it was all about him . . .
As a young child, he was very sweet and thoughtful and made handmade cards at holidays and birthdays but those days are long gone and I am not sure if it is a result of testosterone, development, or what.
And I also don't know if it is a gender thing not to be empathetic or not to buy cards and gifts.
I am also wondering if I should continue to give him money and stuff when he is so selfish (I am a relative in a supportive position, not a parent).
I have stated that my feelings are hurt when he does not do "x" but he gets very defensive and does not change behavior. He claims to "love" me but I don't know if that is just a manipulation or what. I honestly don't understand people who do not care about the feelings of other people when they are informed their actions have resulted in hurt.
Feedback?
We are really talking about your reactions to his behaviors and your feelings being hurt b/c your son does not perform according to your expectations. Giving or not giving a card is a very minor thing and has never been on my radar screen. I think holidays and special days like Mother's Day are basically commercial inventions and whether my children acknowledge me or forget about it doesn't serve as a measure of their respect and love for me in any way.
You are over-reacting to what appears to be pretty common teen behavior.
As the other poster said - sometimes a structured environment like the armed services helps a kid mature. What you have written about is not narcissism but rather immaturity.
Eighteen is a bit young to discern whether he will have a full blown personality disorder (even though that is the age they can officially be diagnosed). The personality continues to develop, and developmental brain changes occur into mid-twenties. If he is still like this (or worse) in 10 years, then he is probably not going to change. I wouldn't worry about it too much at this point. You are certainly not obligated to give him money or other gifts.
I hope I am over-reacting! I just wonder when adults give kids stuff at what point do the kids give back? (Like at birthdays or Christmas, say? - When do you expect reciprocation).
And I don't personally think thoughtfulness is over-rated. I am just not sure if this is more of a gender thing or not . . .
And some people are just takers . . . some are givers, and some are takers.
I hope I am over-reacting and just having hurt feelings.
And I don't even really "believe" in personality disorders, per se . . .but I think some of the "disorders" like narcissism can be useful to describe certain traits.
I guess I am just worried about his character AND have hurt feelings that he is so thoughtless and doesn't seem to care that it affects people when he is (not just me).
I hope I am over-reacting! I just wonder when adults give kids stuff at what point do the kids give back? (Like at birthdays or Christmas, say? - When do you expect reciprocation).
And I don't personally think thoughtfulness is over-rated. I am just not sure if this is more of a gender thing or not . . .
And some people are just takers . . . some are givers, and some are takers.
I hope I am over-reacting and just having hurt feelings.
I've never been a giver. On the other hand, I don't have expectations of receiving either. If people want to give me presents for my birthday, I'll accept them graciously. If people send me holiday greeting cards, I think it's very sweet, but totally unneccessary. I call people on the phone and wish them happy birthday/anniversary/holiday. That's all I expect from anyone. Simply to be remembered on a special day. If it makes me selfish to not give out presents, then oh well. I guess I'm selfish. I just don't think presents are necessary to prove an affection for someone. Also, I don't think people should have to wait for a birthday to give a gift to someone.
My husband brings me flowers on random days during the year. I don't need them on my birthday to know he loves me. And I told him point blank I didn't want him wasting money on roses for Valentine's day; a kiss is enough.
And I don't even really "believe" in personality disorders, per se . . .but I think some of the "disorders" like narcissism can be useful to describe certain traits.
I guess I am just worried about his character AND have hurt feelings that he is so thoughtless and doesn't seem to care that it affects people when he is (not just me).
Google "malignant self love" and go to the varkin link. Good site on NPD.
My x-wife has it. It's more involved than just being self-centered. Trust me, it is horrible to be around. Ask my daughter. She saw her mother two weeks a year until she was 14, and is now 18. That nearly destroyed her. She now has had zero phone contact for the past two years and that has helped, but leaves a whole in her life (much better than the alternative). It is nothing to mess around with. You need a full PhD psychologist that specializes in personality disorders, going to a therapist is wasting time and money. Your son may not have it, but given the extreme nightmare if he does: it is better safe than sorry.
Remember: there is a certain degree of all PDs and phobias in all of us. When it is a matter of degree which makes it dysfunctional.
I've never been a giver. On the other hand, I don't have expectations of receiving either. If people want to give me presents for my birthday, I'll accept them graciously. If people send me holiday greeting cards, I think it's very sweet, but totally unneccessary. I call people on the phone and wish them happy birthday/anniversary/holiday. That's all I expect from anyone. Simply to be remembered on a special day. If it makes me selfish to not give out presents, then oh well. I guess I'm selfish. I just don't think presents are necessary to prove an affection for someone. Also, I don't think people should have to wait for a birthday to give a gift to someone.
My husband brings me flowers on random days during the year. I don't need them on my birthday to know he loves me. And I told him point blank I didn't want him wasting money on roses for Valentine's day; a kiss is enough.
Being selfish is by no means close to being Narcissistic. Narcisus fell in love with a reflexion of himself, be did not fall in love with himself. NPDs create a self-image that doesn't fit reality.
It is a really tricky thing to diagnose a personality disorder (trust me, I used to do it for a living), period, let alone in a teenager when their brains and behavior patterns are still very much developing. Self-centered behavior is a hallmark of adolescent development, although obviously the level will vary from one teen to another. Although the minimum age for a PD diagnosis is 18, one is looking for a specific set of stable pattern of behaviors over a protracted period of time. Typically, the pattern of behaviors would need to be pretty extreme to consider a PD diagnosis in one so young.
Regarding your concerns about this teen's selfish behaviors, I would follow your gut on what you are willing to provide without reciprocation or expressed gratitude, which doesn't require the teen to carry an NPD diagnosis.
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