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Old 05-14-2011, 04:26 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,755,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
Yes, because she said SHE doesn't really think it is this but I should nevertheless check with the ped. She sounded like she would rather defer to the ped.
It is also possible the teacher may have said "no" out of "social desirability". Few teachers, especially pre-K teachers, will tell the parents to their face "I think your son is SO ADHD" especially when they know they are NOT qualified to make such evaluations.

So her answer was 'I, for one, don't really think so, but why don't you check with your ped".
It's more likely she said to consult a ped out of legal responsibility, not because she truly believed your son needed to be evaluated. She merely qualified her answer about consulting a ped because because teachers are not allowed to diagnose ADHD since they aren't doctors. But it's more telling that she said she didn't believe he had ADHD. Most teachers are quick to label children ADHD---even though they're not qualified to diagnose---and they'll follow up with the same "consult your doctor" qualifier. The most important part of that conversation is that your son's teacher doesn't believe he has ADHD.

You seem determine to have someone label your son with something so he can be fixed. I think he sounds like a perfectly normal boy. It sounds more like YOU need to change your expectations and ways than your son needing to change. Maybe you should drag yourself off for a personal evaluation of yourself. I don't believe there is anything wrong with you---anymore than I believe there is anything wrong with your son. But hopefully you'll see how ridiculous it sounds for you to be so concerned about crayons on the floor.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
The former: not (has never had very good fine or gross motor skills).
The latter: he had attempts but I told them the stork brought them to me because I really love theis old-fashiond stork story for small children . But then he asked me where do animals get their babies from if they have them in their tummies? He wanted to know what exactly do they come out of?



Well, the teacher said check with the ped and the oed said "why don't you check with this payshcologist"?

Should I have rejected the suggestions?
Yes, you should have. I'm wondering, though, did you show the level of concern you've shiwn here with the teacher, ped and psych? If i was your son's teacher and you kept questioning me about ADHD and telling me all the ADHD behaviors you see at home, I might suggest the same thing for two reasons: 1. I'm not qualified to make that assessment and 2. You seem really concerned and seem to expect some answer from me and suggesting you speak with the ped is all I can think of.

Same with the ped. Maybe she decided, since you keep bringing it up, she suggested you investigate further to mollify you.

It just seems that despite everyone telling you your son is fine, and you yourself seem to suggest he is fine, you are not satisfied with that answer. Maybe the psych gave your son a dx because she knew you would not be satisfied if she told you everything is fine.

I'm sorry, it's just that your posts are confusing. In one post you're angry that anyone would think for a minute that your son is not perfectly normal, then you start listing all your son's 'deficits' that you feel clearly point out that your son has issues that are probably ADHD.

I say forget all this and just enjoy your son for who is,and yes that means even the parts of him that are frustrating.

Typed on Iphone so hope it makes sense
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Old 05-14-2011, 05:39 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 7,417,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
Honestly, it sounds like your son is EXTREMELY bored at school sometimes---possibly because he's bright!

If that's the case, WHY would you look to fix HIM? Instead of everything you've been doing, I would have been asking the school district to test him to see if he's gifted.
Ok...on this "bright" and "gifted" business. First of all, he is in pre-K and they don't test for such things at that school. But the psych did.
I will be totally honest just to shed more light, in case anyone else makes comparisons with their own situation, case, etc.

He is the kind of child that DOES come across as very bright because he is incredibly verbal (There is a "HOWEVER" coming below).
All hear him speaking in English, which in fact is his second language, and are very impressed with his language, vocabulary, etc. He scored in the 95th percentile on select sections of the Verbal part of a Cognitive test the psych administered to him (such as memory, learning and information).
Those particular sections would indeed qualify him as "gifted".
On others he scored in the 75th and 84th percentiles.

And now the HOWEVER: he had a few sections on which he had basically BAD scores. He simply was not paying attention anymore - and by the time she tested him on "processing speed", he just couldn't focus on completing the task. So he scored badly. The psych said that this was because he got very distracted.

I also noticed that in general, he does not catch on as easily to some
logical/mathematical things. So when it comes to spatial skills, logical abilities, flexibility in thinking, etc - these seem to not be as high as his verbal abilities.

Also, in general, he prefers to do "easy things" (those things that come easy to him) and does not like to be challenged. Overall gifted children burn to be challenged. He is not.

Yes, he does come across as a very bright child because of the way he talks and because he is academically advanced for his age. The latter is because I worked with him, knowing his terrible dislike for "hard". I worked withn him one on one and he got it. I wouldn't say he learns really quickly but he does learn if you show him.

I was simply afraid that he would start school and find things hard and get to dislike it. So I decided to work a bit with him ahead of schedule so he will find K easy. For example, now he reads at about 1-3 grade level - but by no means would I believe that this is a sign of gifted-ness.
Of course, I am not sure how much we will be able to keep ahead of the school like this, just so he can find things he encounters in school "easy".
So...again, this "brightness" thing can be tricky.

I really think that, all in all, he is of average to above-average intelligence, but NOT gifted. He is the kind of person who could achieve quite a bit with a lot of hard work and commitment AND with attention problems somehow fixed. We hope that NOT by meds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
Buy triangle crayons and let him have fun coloring like the normal five year old he is! His being messy isn't a sign of anything.
Oh, he has tons on his desk. I buy lots of white paper and crayons, fill a folder with white pages and leave it on his desk. He draws a lot during his quiet time - because he won't nap.
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Old 05-14-2011, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,376,368 times
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Syracusa - still sounds extremely normal to me....and most kids have given up naps by that age (or are in the process) anyway. I think DS stopped napping around 4. And most of us are better at some things than others.

And...honestly, not meaning this in a negative way - just an observation....you seem to be a very anxious mother. On the one hand you comment frequently about this culture and how overly child-centered we are instead of the children being the "satellites" of the adults. Yet you seem to spend tons of time obsessing about whether your children are normal. Is your daughter too fat or is your son "different" in some way.....Relax. Just enjoy your children. They will be different than you, different from your husband, different from other kids and from each other. That's just the nature of being little individuals. Sometimes you will see glimpses of yourself or someone else in their traits and personalities and sometimes you will wonder where in the heck that trait came from. You really do need to learn to go with the flow a bit. Not to say you should ignore real problems but I really think you tend to overthink things that often don't need that much analysis.
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:06 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,677,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
The former: not (has never had very good fine or gross motor skills).
The latter: he had attempts but I told them the stork brought them to me because I really love theis old-fashiond stork story for small children . But then he asked me where do animals get their babies from if they have them in their tummies? He wanted to know what exactly do they come out of?



Well, the teacher said check with the ped and the oed said "why don't you check with this payshcologist"?

Should I have rejected the suggestions?
You should've thanked them for their suggestions, and gone on your merry way. They were -suggestions.- Not directions, not commands, not orders, not instructions.

The teacher said there was an -occasional- behavior problem. You told the teacher you noticed various issues. As a result of the conversation, the teacher probably saw there was more going on than she had observed, and suggested you ask a doctor - since she was NOT qualified to diagnose your child.

If you weren't worried about it, then no - you shouldn't have gone to a doctor. If a kid isn't sick, you don't medicate him. If he shows no symptoms of any illness, then you don't go to a doctor looking for a diagnosis.
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,364,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsop View Post
Same with the ped. Maybe she decided, since you keep bringing it up, she suggested you investigate further to mollify you.
I work in a pediatricians' office and I can say that does happen. If a dr. gets a sense that a mom is very concerned about an issue, s/he will refer the child out, even if s/he doesn't think there is any need to. Unfortunately, with behavior, there's no blood test one can do to say "yes" or "no", like there is with the ever popular parental diagnosis of celiac disease.
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:50 PM
 
Location: You know... That place
1,899 posts, read 2,845,084 times
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I am not going to say he is gifted. I am going to say he is bored. I was lucky that in DDs Pre-K, the teachers already knew DD before she started. They also knew us and knew the fact that we worked with her at home. Otherwise, we might have had the same problem. The teacher assigned DD as the Helper for most classes that they knew she was ahead in. Otherwise she would be really bored and would talk the entire lesson. She would try to get up and get a book to read, or a math book to play in. She was bored because she already knew the material. She would also have problems focusing towards the end of the learning day. That was probably for a couple of reasons. She was tired of being bored all day, so thought she didn't really need to focus. Or, it was the end of a long period of having to focus (much harder for kids than adults).

I think this is a common problem amongst parents who work with their kids and encourage learning at home. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

BTW... I think a lot of Drs. (peds & psych) have started giving into parental pressure. So many of them have had parent after parent come in and rip them a new one because "we are paying you a lot of money and you can't find anything wrong with him? You have to FIX him." Even if you don't put pressure on them, they are just in the habit of finding something wrong.

If you are still really concerned, continue to keep an eye on him. However, remember that kids are messy, they drop things on the floor, they can't sit still for long, they don't want to do theings that don't interest them, they lose focus pretty quickly (especially when it is something boring), and they do a million other things that we can't get away with as adults, but are perfectly normal child behaviors.
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:54 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,755,385 times
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Good point num1baby.

The OP could be causing this problem by working with her child to be grades ahead of the other children.

Syracusa very well could be the one who is making him bored with school.
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:09 PM
 
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Thank you everyone for your input, I really appreciate it!
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Old 05-14-2011, 10:37 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 7,593,410 times
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Something else to add and think about.

It sounds like he is a more of a kinesthetic learner and maybe a bit of a visual learner and lesser of an auditory learner. That would translate at this age to meaning he would be best suited to a play-based program where learning comes from hands on learning with such things as demonstrations, props, and chosen participation instead of instructive lessons presented orally, worksheets and total participation.

For instance......a play-based program would have a circle time that gives the children each an item that is the color RED to use while they sing the song (to the tune of Are you Sleeping) R-E-D, RED, R-E-D RED, I can spell RED, I can spell RED. Firetrucks are RED, Stop signs are RED too, R-E-D. R-E-D. They would be allowed to move around if they need to. They could be a little loud too. This will have given them a variety of ways to begin to learn the lesson.
To support that further they get to then choose where to go next. It may be painting with red at the art center, putting on red clothes in the dress up area, playing at the water table with red food coloring added to the water, looking at different red items with magnifying glasses in the science area, reading books about red in the quiet center, using red markers, red crayons, and red pencils with paper at the writing center and eating red items for snack. They don't have to participate in each center, it's their choice where they go and what they skip.

In a program that isn't play-based, they may be expected to sit quietly at circle time listening to "Ann Likes Red" then everyone goes to their tables to work on their red lessons. At table 1 group A is asked to trace the letters R-E-D on a tracer paper. At table 2 group B is asked to draw something that is red on a blank piece of paper. At table 3 group C is given a worksheet that has numerous items of different colors and they are asked to circle the items that are red at the manipulative center. At table 4 group D is asked to sort red apples by size. When time is up they move to the next table-A goes to 2, B goes to 3, C goes to 4 and D goes to 1....and so on until they have done each activity. They are expected to sit at their tables until time to move to the next one and they are expected to participate in each activity with their group.

If he is in a program that isn't play based, then the teacher will have the expectations that he sit still, participate fully and focus only on the task at hand. She will be more likely to get frustrated with those who can't do that because of the expectations.

However, if he is in a play-based program the teacher will expect him to need to move around, not participate in everything and will allow him to spend less time in some areas and more time in others according to his interests and needs. She will be far less likely to get frustrated with those kind of actions because the ability to make them is built into the program.

I don't know what kind of program he is in, nor what kind of teacher he may have, but that could be the root of the issue right now, and not him having an individual issue that may have a diagnosis.
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