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Olives are for putting on the ends of my fingers so that I can annoy my mother at Thanksgiving. But that's black olives. I tried to like green olives and they are just pleh to the max.
Bathtub gin ... Calgon, take me away! ... overworked moms .... aaand we're back on topic.
On topic, working and home Mom's meet at a nice restaurant to order whatever version of martini they like best and cheers each other.
I am working from home because they are on fall break for parent-teacher conferences. I have to go in to the office on Monday ... looking forward to it.
Luckily the weather is very nice so I can kick them outside.
Not sure what you mean about not having seen it - do you mean you have seen SAHM's but have not recognized this issue, or have not seen it fully played out when the child becomes an adult, or what?
When I was growing up in the stone age, kids walked to school and played outside - now that is basically forbidden - kids MUST be driven one block to school, have tight schedules and playdates and are not allowed to roam the streets.
The funny thing is that in the 50's and 60's, there were plenty of SAHM's, but they weren't so focused on their kids - my parents had no idea where I was or what I was doing, and I thank God for that! I had freedom.
Kids today have absolutely no freedom.
Seriously, this depends on where you live. In our neighborhood, the kids play out quite a lot with only minimal supervision. The little ones do have moms outside with them, but the older kids ride their bikes to the neighborhood park and play basketball in the neighbor's driveway. True, they don't walk or bike to school because we have no sidewalks and the school is not really accessible that way, so most are driven or take the school bus. That wasn't so different in my day - I walked to school, but lots of kids took the bus.
Kids here do have playdates sometimes if there are not kids their age in the neighborhood, but my granddaughter often just goes over and knocks on her best friend's door (at her house, he's right next door and at my house her girlfriend is right next door). The only problem with the girlfriend is that she often does not get home until late since she goes to daycare (both parents work). Still the kids arrange things on their own now that they are 8 and 9.
At 5 or 6, they were still having parents arrange things.
My grandkids do have activities, but we try not to overschedule them. DGD has horseback riding once a week. She has girl scouts twice a month (sometimes 3 times if we have a field trip). My grandson has a lot, but it's therapies. He really cannot be outside independently yet as we cannot know if he will have a meltdown or wander somewhere. So mom is outside when he is. He does play with the neighborhood kids and they are pretty accepting at this point. In fact, we went to the neighborhood park with him and one of his 1st grade classmates was there. They ran all over the park together with minimal supervision.
Many of us have been both SAHM and WOHM or some combination. For ME there was no one that was perfectly superior. It is always a trade off. Each has its own pros and cons.
There were some benefits to my being home that continue to pay dividends now that I am working. In our household, my being home made me focus on good discipline, self control, responsibility, interpersonal skills. When I was working full time, my goal was to get through each day. We were so busy that the impact of their not having a thoughtful, deliberate approach to these skills was not felt.
As soon as I had to spend all day with them. for self preservation if nothing else, we HAD to begin working on that stuff. I *strongly* believe that the time spent focussing on this has greatly affected my children's behavior, character and self esteem. I further strongly believe that if I were working, I would have had neither the time nor the energy to tackle it.
A good child care provider can do this as well. In my opinion, it is largely a matter of thinking, problem solving what works best... the acquisition of skill. I don't believe that the child care providers that my kids went to had these skills nor the foresight or motivation to acquire them. I DO know that there is one provider in town who is reputed to be EXCELLENT at this.
I also know for a fact that there are WOHMs who have managed it as evidenced by their really responsible, well mannered children.
Another benefit for us was brought on by necessity, necessity being the mother of invention. The kids and I had the opportunity to learn and practice frugality. The kids and I incorporated coupon clipping, flier inspection, sale watching and unit price examination as part of our "home economics" and "math" curriculum. We have those skills to fall back on if needs be. I wish I still was able to do this. But I don't have time. We buy convenience items and the like because now we have money, but a whole lot less time.
But there are many benefits to my working. The kids get to pursue their interests like music, sports and art. We could never afford to pay for these things before. The reduction in stress associated with being able to pay bills is a nice little treat. I enjoy the work that I do and am good at it. I love the people I work with, one of whom is my husband!
So I feel that it makes sense for a family to look at the pros and cons and make EITHER decision. I wonder if anyone else wants to share their calculus?
I had never really thought of it that way, but you have a point. When you spend 24/7 with your kids you really want them to be well-mannered! That's not to say a child care provider can't teach this too, but I don't know if the motivation is the same, since they get to hand the kid off at the end of the day. Full disclosure - I did used to work, and my kids did go to day care, I'm not bashing the WM!
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious
This is a huge issue with many facets and aspects. I am basically for nurturing the child, but there is one big negative to be aware of . . . these days, SAHM's have become what I think of as "assistants" to their children . . .little servants and slaves to their children. I don't think this is healthy for the mom or the child, but in the interest of taking good care of children, lots of women completely put themselves in subservient positions (with good intentions) and the results are the mom becomes a robot and the child becomes a little tyrant who grows up to feel entitled. Not good.
I think this happens, but I don't know that it is a rampant problem. I know some parents want to take the easier route and give the child his way all the time, but I don't know that it is a SAH vs WM thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icibiu
UGHHH!!! I don't know if you did this naively or not but you do know that this entire thread is going to turn into some giant p*ssing match where mothers put each other down instead of just letting people be and being happy with their own choices. We already HAVE one of those threads going and it's a zillion pages long!
And then the very first post you mention the bolded. Really? You say something that is clearly looking down on people who work outside the home and their inability to have the time and energy to focus on discipline, but you sugar coat it and CYA by saying "in my home" and then adding "I'm sure some WOHM have the energy.
What if I said "In my house when I stayed home I noticed the children all turned into spoiled selfish snot nosed brats that didn't do anything for themselves, so I went back to work and now they are fine. I'm sure somewhere out there, there must be a SAHM who does okay with this but it wasn't my experience at all"
This topic is a well travelled road and always leads to the same destination.
My thoughts on SAHM vs. WOHM?? Every woman is an individual and just like we are not all cut out to be lawyers or kindergarten teachers we are not all cut out to stay at home or work outside the home. Some women are content staying home and being domestic all day and some women get antsy and want to do professional stuff. Some women don't mind skrimping and saving in order to stay home some women enjoy being able to not worry about money and provide first class for their children. Some women do not make enought to afford working outside the home, some husbands don't make enough to allow for the woman to stay home. Some women think it's best for a child to have a parent at home their entire life, some think it's best during infancy or toddlerhood others feel its important during the teenage years.
At the end of the day I respect women who are doing the best to make themselves and thier families happy and healthy and do their best to provide for their families needs and desires in a way that best suits that family. If no one is being abused, mistreated, neglected why does it matter to me??
Not sure what you mean about not having seen it - do you mean you have seen SAHM's but have not recognized this issue, or have not seen it fully played out when the child becomes an adult, or what?
When I was growing up in the stone age, kids walked to school and played outside - now that is basically forbidden - kids MUST be driven one block to school, have tight schedules and playdates and are not allowed to roam the streets.
The funny thing is that in the 50's and 60's, there were plenty of SAHM's, but they weren't so focused on their kids - my parents had no idea where I was or what I was doing, and I thank God for that! I had freedom.
Kids today have absolutely no freedom.
I have not seen this as the most common form of SAHM style either. I do absolutely agree that I have seen it but in high school kids it isn't hugely common. Maybe 4-5 moms out of a hundred or so kids in a grade. Actually when you consider only about 10% of the moms of the kids at my school are SAHMs who do not have any preschoolers and do not work part time or work from home, then 4-5 is a significant portion but still not the majority.
Interesting but I have to say I haven't really seen the "tyrant" aspect just the occasional lack of independence.
Not sure what you mean about not having seen it - do you mean you have seen SAHM's but have not recognized this issue, or have not seen it fully played out when the child becomes an adult, or what?
When I was growing up in the stone age, kids walked to school and played outside - now that is basically forbidden - kids MUST be driven one block to school, have tight schedules and playdates and are not allowed to roam the streets.
The funny thing is that in the 50's and 60's, there were plenty of SAHM's, but they weren't so focused on their kids - my parents had no idea where I was or what I was doing, and I thank God for that! I had freedom.
Kids today have absolutely no freedom.
ITA! with this. My mother never volunteered at my school and if she had to talk to my teacher, I was in deep chit! She didn't schedule play dates, drive me around or even know where I was half the time. I was EXPECTED to behave myself at all times and to know where I was and was not allowed to go. In the summer, she'd kick us out the door in the morning and tell us to be in when the street lights came on. I too am glad I had that kind of freedom.
I try to give more freedom to my kids than most kids have. It's easy with dd#2 because she runs with a solid crowd and I don't have to worry about what they are up to. For example, she once went missing after school and I was about to call the police when she, finally, came home. Seems she had stopped by the elementary school to visit an old teacher and she and her friends got enlisted to write "fairy letters" to the kids (the kids ask the fairies questions and the fairies answer them in letters) and her phone doesn't work inside of the school building. She makes it impossible to be mad at her even when she's broken the rules. I don't worry too much about where she is. I just ask that she check in now and again so I know she's alive. Now, her sister is a challenge because she doesn't pick the best friends. Her I have to watch more than I care to but you gotta do what you gotta do.
When and why did we become a nation of hover parents? Is it because we have so little to do at home these days that we feel a need to fill our time hovering over our children, playing chauffer, arranging play dates and entertaining them? Honestly, mothers didn't do this when I was growing up and we grew up just fine in spite of that.
ITA! with this. My mother never volunteered at my school and if she had to talk to my teacher, I was in deep chit! She didn't schedule play dates, drive me around or even know where I was half the time. I was EXPECTED to behave myself at all times and to know where I was and was not allowed to go. In the summer, she'd kick us out the door in the morning and tell us to be in when the street lights came on. I too am glad I had that kind of freedom.
I try to give more freedom to my kids than most kids have. It's easy with dd#2 because she runs with a solid crowd and I don't have to worry about what they are up to. For example, she once went missing after school and I was about to call the police when she, finally, came home. Seems she had stopped by the elementary school to visit an old teacher and she and her friends got enlisted to write "fairy letters" to the kids (the kids ask the fairies questions and the fairies answer them in letters) and her phone doesn't work inside of the school building. She makes it impossible to be mad at her even when she's broken the rules. I don't worry too much about where she is. I just ask that she check in now and again so I know she's alive. Now, her sister is a challenge because she doesn't pick the best friends. Her I have to watch more than I care to but you gotta do what you gotta do.
When and why did we become a nation of hover parents? Is it because we have so little to do at home these days that we feel a need to fill our time hovering over our children, playing chauffer, arranging play dates and entertaining them? Honestly, mothers didn't do this when I was growing up and we grew up just fine in spite of that.
I never much got into the idealized, sanitized version of the fifties and sixties. Could be because it didn't exist for anyone I knew. The families across the street bore a suspicious resemblance to the Cramdens (well, except for the single dad wew ere all convinced murdered his wife and was well on his way to doing a repeat performance with his kids); my mother fancied herself a glamorous divorcee and frequently left us to the tender ministrations of either Granny Aconite or a pack of wolves (depending on how recently Granny Ac...er, maybe it was the wolves...had eaten). We ran the neighborhood with the local horde, all right, but I also remember darn well what we were up to when we did. I'm pretty sure I don't want Manchild or Young Miss Aconite pulling the same crap we did.
ITA! with this. My mother never volunteered at my school and if she had to talk to my teacher, I was in deep chit! She didn't schedule play dates, drive me around or even know where I was half the time. I was EXPECTED to behave myself at all times and to know where I was and was not allowed to go. In the summer, she'd kick us out the door in the morning and tell us to be in when the street lights came on. I too am glad I had that kind of freedom.
I try to give more freedom to my kids than most kids have. It's easy with dd#2 because she runs with a solid crowd and I don't have to worry about what they are up to. For example, she once went missing after school and I was about to call the police when she, finally, came home. Seems she had stopped by the elementary school to visit an old teacher and she and her friends got enlisted to write "fairy letters" to the kids (the kids ask the fairies questions and the fairies answer them in letters) and her phone doesn't work inside of the school building. She makes it impossible to be mad at her even when she's broken the rules. I don't worry too much about where she is. I just ask that she check in now and again so I know she's alive. Now, her sister is a challenge because she doesn't pick the best friends. Her I have to watch more than I care to but you gotta do what you gotta do.
When and why did we become a nation of hover parents? Is it because we have so little to do at home these days that we feel a need to fill our time hovering over our children, playing chauffer, arranging play dates and entertaining them? Honestly, mothers didn't do this when I was growing up and we grew up just fine in spite of that.
Oh for goodness' sakes, get over yourself. Who's this "we" you're referring to? Because it's not me, that's for sure.
And speaking to the issue of parents volunteering at schools, and mothers doing stuff, my neighborhood schools vary in quality from horrible to not too bad directly in relation to the level of parental involvement, because in these days of budget cuts and whatever else the schools that are not in affluent school districts are having to deal with, those parents are making the schools half bearable.
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I don't worry too much about where she is. I just ask that she check in now and again so I know she's alive. Now, her sister is a challenge because she doesn't pick the best friends. Her I have to watch more than I care to but you gotta do what you gotta do.