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I'm sure I'll get a lot of flak on this, but what the heck possesses parents to set their kids up for disaster-- along the line of having their kids present themselves as "different" and outrageous as possible, & then the kids are left with the confrontations that result from it?
One example from recent news: a 14-yr-old boy wore dresses, ladies' shoes, & makeup to school, & had been engaging in this kind of behavior since the 5th grade. his classmate who shot & killed him is currently on trial.
Awhile back I read online about a mother talking about her daughter's suicide-- at 12 yrs. old she'd taken to wearing full "goth" get-ups, & after being tormented by other kids she ended up killing herself.
Further back, I read about a father telling his elementary-aged kid "if all the other boys in your class wear black shoes, you will wear brown!"
The idea seems to be "be as outrageous as you possibly can-- and demand that other people 'accept' you."
Frankly I think it's a very negative message to give to kids, even when they don't end up in disasters like the two examples above.
IMHO...these are extreme cases...
And individuality should be encouraged..I know for certain I do not want my son to be a sheep...dress like everyone else just because..Think like everyone else because this gets you further..
Raising independant thinkers and children whom already know who they are and are leaders not followers are important..They are the leaders..the inventors..AND SO FORTH..
My son is going to be a freshman this year IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL, it was his choice..he has friends there thank god, I am terrified..but he is into dance..not a ballerina..but electro..he belongs to DG..he is DJ..he has dj'd several parties..yes instead of mediocre gifts for his bday he asked for DJ equipment..
He wears skinny jeans, and all original tees..he has his own style.he graduated DARE and has catholic school teachings..
I have told him about peer pressure..he states now as a frosh "Mommy dont worry I know right from wrong besides I know you will kill me..lol"
I could easily make him a mold of what is going to be represented as the majority at a local public hs..but I also know I need to allow him to be who he is and pray that all I taught him will be remembered...
Plus..I am a mean mom..you have no idea...
Meaning when it comes to my kid? I dare you..I really do..
I'm sure I'll get a lot of flak on this, but what the heck possesses parents to set their kids up for disaster-- along the line of having their kids present themselves as "different" and outrageous as possible, & then the kids are left with the confrontations that result from it?
One example from recent news: a 14-yr-old boy wore dresses, ladies' shoes, & makeup to school, & had been engaging in this kind of behavior since the 5th grade. his classmate who shot & killed him is currently on trial.
Awhile back I read online about a mother talking about her daughter's suicide-- at 12 yrs. old she'd taken to wearing full "goth" get-ups, & after being tormented by other kids she ended up killing herself.
Further back, I read about a father telling his elementary-aged kid "if all the other boys in your class wear black shoes, you will wear brown!"
The idea seems to be "be as outrageous as you possibly can-- and demand that other people 'accept' you."
Frankly I think it's a very negative message to give to kids, even when they don't end up in disasters like the two examples above.
It may surprise you, but by middle and high school, parents are generally not the driving force between children's fashion decisions.
It may surprise you, but by middle and high school, parents are generally not the driving force between children's fashion decisions.
Yes, and even if parents DO enforce somewhat of a "dress code", there's no saying that your child isn't packing extra clothing into their backpack, so that they can "assert their preferences", once they get to school!
And right here it is! This is the talk that some parents have with their kids and this is why their kids get bullied! Because people (especially school kids) do NOT accept drastic differences in other kids. Because those kids do NOT leave well enough alone! Telling your kid "Screw those other kids, you just do what you WANNA do!", IS setting your kids up to be tormented and isolated. NO, they don't have to be exactly like other kids, but they DO need to pay attention to what IS accepted. If they can't and won't do so, they are GOING to have their lives made miserable.
You can be an individual without being an extremist. For some people, that's just not good enough. They expect everyone ELSE to change THEIR views and beliefs in order to adapt to THEM. It's the same old BS that gets talked about on here all the time. Don't adapt yourself at all. Expect everyone else to change!
Mel, I love ya more than my luggage, but I have to disagree with you on this one.
Some kids just are weird. You can dress 'em preppy or skater or whatever the prevailing look is in Middle America Middle School, and their little freak flags are just going to fly anyway. You can put a transgendered teen in a Green Bay jersey and manly man jeans, tell him to act all butch and forget his secret dream of highland dancing and changing his name to Stephanie, and it's not going to make a darned bit of difference. He is who he is, and if there are other kids around who have been told it's dandy to bully the weirdos, he's still going to be a piece of raw meat, right after they finish with the little autistic kid who thought they really did want to be her friend even though she didn't get their jokes.
And y'know...yes, I really would like people to stop hating others because of their dress, or their disabilities, or their skin color, or who they get crushes on. Gods help me, I really do wish for a better world, despite my innate knowledge that a lot of people are just basically rat bastards. It's a character flaw I've had for years. But y'know, failing that, I'll concede them the right to be as ugly and hateful inside as they want, as long as they keep their fists off my kid's nose and their opinions to themselves. Because if nothing else, in Florida it's not just a good idea, it's the &*%$ law.
You know, I guess one of the reasons that this subject hits home so hard with me is this. There was a dear boy who went to school with one of my kids. All of my children adored him. Heck, there really weren't too many people who DIDN'T love him. He was so incredibly funny, the sweetest, kindest, give-you-the-shirt-off-his-back kind of boy. He was so very gifted in the arts and was in every school play, from 1st grade on. He was also effeminate.
As he got up into high school, more and more kids (especially the boys) started making fun of him, for the way he walked, the way he dressed. He would wear feminine clothes, walk in an exaggerated feminine way, then cry his poor heart out because some of the other kids were making fun of him. He worked his tail off in high school, getting good grades and ended up with some pretty decent scholarship funds to attend a great college.
Although he was sad to leave behind the people who really did love him, just the way he was, there was a part of him that was SO relieved to get out of this small town, go where there were more people "like him", so that he could finally feel accepted for who he was. He wanted to find love so badly and had never felt accepted in that way in our home town. He just KNEW he'd find love once he got to the "big city". He was wrong. He found himself being just as unaccepted there as he had here. In fact, he was even lonlier there than he was here, because he didn't even have any of his lifelong friends there with him.
Earlier this year....he hung himself. He couldn't bear the lonliness any longer. He left a suicide note for his friends and family, stating that no matter what he did, no matter how hard he tried, he never felt accepted for who he was. No matter how hard he tried, and how desperately he wanted to find love, because he had SO much to give....he couldn't handle the rejection any longer. Life was no longer worth living. He was so sorry for the pain his suicide was going to cause those how did care about him, but he simply couldn't live one more day with HIS pain.
Yes, so if I sound intolerant or like a conformist....I'll take the flak. I would so much rather have my kids conform "a bit", than to live out on the edge, with no fear of consequences or backlash, and have them find themselves too despondent to continue to live...one...more....day.
Yeah, well... my kid got bullied enough that she was suicidal at the age of nine. She's profoundly gifted and autistic. I guess I should have told her to stop it and be normal. Dopey me.
Why is the burden on parents teaching their children to conform instead of parents teaching their children that beating people up, bullying, and shooting is wrong?
Because blaming the victim absolves everyone else of having to act like a decent human.
I thought this was going to be a thread about parents who give their kids odd names, or push them into an activity they aren't good at, or something. I don't think the examples given are parents who "set their kids up to fail."
Mel, I love ya more than my luggage, but I have to disagree with you on this one.
Some kids just are weird. You can dress 'em preppy or skater or whatever the prevailing look is in Middle America Middle School, and their little freak flags are just going to fly anyway. You can put a transgendered teen in a Green Bay jersey and manly man jeans, tell him to act all butch and forget his secret dream of highland dancing and changing his name to Stephanie, and it's not going to make a darned bit of difference. He is who he is, and if there are other kids around who have been told it's dandy to bully the weirdos, he's still going to be a piece of raw meat, right after they finish with the little autistic kid who thought they really did want to be her friend even though she didn't get their jokes.
And y'know...yes, I really would like people to stop hating others because of their dress, or their disabilities, or their skin color, or who they get crushes on. Gods help me, I really do wish for a better world, despite my innate knowledge that a lot of people are just basically rat bastards. It's a character flaw I've had for years. But y'know, failing that, I'll concede them the right to be as ugly and hateful inside as they want, as long as they keep their fists off my kid's nose and their opinions to themselves. Because if nothing else, in Florida it's not just a good idea, it's the &*%$ law.
My dear friend, there's not a thing about your message that I disagree with. I mean, you're right....there are some kids who are flat out bully magnets, they attract them like static to nylon, no matter what you put them in. Also, there are some kids who are flat out mean to the core. They might have the nicest, most tolerant parents you'd ever ask for, but for some reason (insecurity?) just turn out to be the most rotten, hateful, cruel and intolerant people you'll ever meet.
My whole point was that kids should start learning early on, to pay attention to kids around them. Watch, look and listen. If your seeing someone whose behavior is attracting every bully on the block..like a pile of cow sh*t draws flies, is that behavior that YOU want to throw out there? Hey, not displaying that behavior is most certainly not going to guarantee that you won't end up that jerk's target, but why would you do anything more to draw their attention than you absolutely have to.
H*ll, you and I both know that a kid can shop at the same stores, buy the same clothes as "popular" kids, get their hair cut the same way, drive the same care...be a friggin clone of the popular kids, even play on the same sports team and it's NO guarantee that they'll ever let you near their inner circle. What those "outsiders" don't realize though, until later....maybe EVER, is that they're not missing anything! Those "popular" kids' lives are no better than their own.
I guess my whole theory is, "Don't paint a fricking bullseye in the middle of your back and then b*&)h because everyone uses you as a target. As for the rotten to the core bullies out there....hey, karma's a *****. Punch, torment and bully away, your time's a comin'
Yeah, well... my kid got bullied enough that she was suicidal at the age of nine. She's profoundly gifted and autistic. I guess I should have told her to stop it and be normal. Dopey me.
Oh dear Aconite, in cases such as your poor daughter...there IS no changing who you are. You know the saying, "The pen is mightier than the sword"? Oh how true it is. Reading this post...OMG, got my adrenaline going. I really can't put words to those feelings, because &*)#)#*R%S^^*)*^& just doesn't express much.
Seriously, the kids who torment children such as your daughter, oh Aconite, there really aren't words. Like I said, karma's a b*&(h!!!! Not that that makes life any less miserable for the person who's being teased and tormented.
If there is one thing I threatened my children over, it's that right there...bullying, making fun of, joining in or even AGREEING with others who are making fun of someone.
One of the things I taught my children from birth is this. If you EVER, and I mean E-V-E-R tease people, make fun of them, bully them, or even stand by and watch without doing something to put a stop to it, you will suffer consequences unlike anything you have ever experienced. If I EVER hear that you have ever taken a part in something like that...I WILL make you sorrier than you've ever been in your LIFE! And remember this...there is something called KARMA...whatever you do to someone else, even if I don't find out about it...WILL be done to you, and when it does, I'm going to look at you and have absolutely NO pity for you at ALL, because THAT is how people learn empathy, what it feels like to BE the person being tormented!!
Thankfully, my children listened! They were the protectors, regardless of whatever consequences they had to face on occasion. They might temporarily have had to face the wrath of those they stopped, but eventually, they gained a h*ll of a lot of respect from everyone for their actions. I don't know for positive that it was solely our threats or even our modeled behavior that shaped our kids....maybe they were just born with the same intolerance for bullies as me and their dad, but I could not be prouder of our kids for their kindness and sense of "righteousness".
I'm so sorry for what your poor daughter and YOU went through. It's sick and it's wrong, on so many levels!
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As for the rotten to the core bullies out there....hey, karma's a *****. Punch, torment and bully away, your time's a comin' 
