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Old 09-02-2011, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I can tell your reading from the beginning, lol. I've already been beat up over that one. What I will say is that 1991 was a bit of a transition time. The older boomers were in their late 40's and the oldest Gen-Xers were hitting their 30's. Popular culture at the time was being defined by the transition from Boomers to Gen-X, while the power structure was shifting from Silents to Boomers. At that point, the Boomers were no longer "culture" they were the establishment.

Clinton (first Boomer President) gets elected in 1992 and Grunge/alt rock were dominating the music scene, which were decidedly Gen-X.
Mea culpa! I try to have some idea what the thread is about before I respond!

I'll give you the transition time. But I'm not sure I'm willing to endorse the idea that the local pop station is the arbiter of the cultural norm. If that were the case, I'd have had to've killed myself then, since I spent part of '91 standing in line with 50,000 others to take my kids to see New Kids On The Block.
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Old 09-02-2011, 12:13 PM
 
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GOAT: It might interest you to know I was a Poli Sci/Int'l Relations major myself.

(And to get back to the whole "Woman" thing: In the early 70's I was often the only woman in those classes. When I changed my major in grad school I had a professor beg me to stay in Int'l Relations because they were so few women studying it. But my focus had shifted.)
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Old 09-02-2011, 12:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Viet Nam shaped my feelings about government, the military establishment, politics, and esprit de corps . . . but the Beatles were the one biggest factor that affected my life's direction, as silly as that may sound.
Ooohhhh! I was going to bring them up yesterday!! GOAT really missed that when he didn't mention them.

I was going to mention the whole "JFK was killed, the Beatles came to America" aspect of being a Boomer. Well done, Anifani! (Me too, BTW. And probably most Boomers I know for a whole lot of different reasons.)
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Old 09-02-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Vietnam IS what shaped us. It's in our very beings. It's just something in our gut that I don't think you can understand. Not saying you aren't smart. Because you are! But someone who wasn't a Boomer in that time just CAN'T get it. Understanding that period in our history is like trying to catch the wind.

Wink, wink.
One of my earlier memories-- and a distillation of what drove a lot of my decisions as an adult-- was standing in the kitchen drying dishes as my older sister got the news that one of her best friends was killed. Another is the change in my aunt when my uncle-- a parajumper-- went missing. (He's still listed as missing, btw. She passed away a few years ago; I like to think she's finally got her answers.)
I graduated with the first wave of refugee kids, who'd just arrived in a country whose people had bombed the snot out of theirs.
The whole hippie/Summer of Love counterculture isn't what shaped me, or what shaped the people I know. TV and radio and fashion aren't visceral. Kerouac was an easy A in Freshman English, but he wasn't visceral either. None of those are nearly as liable to stay with you as hearing your sister or your aunt scream.

Last edited by Aconite; 09-02-2011 at 12:31 PM.. Reason: Ani would, by here Beatles reference, apparently disagree. But perhaps we're just acting out our temporally-assigned role...
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Old 09-02-2011, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
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Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post

Anyway, without gettting too historical would you agree or disagree with the statement that the "times are defined by the people who live them"?

As I'm sure you know, I do agree with that statement. It seems you believe the opposite that the people are defined by the times.
I think, in the personal sense, yes, people are shaped by their times. On a more macro level, it's a chicken/egg scenario. Or more precisely, a question of where does one begin and one end?
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Old 09-02-2011, 12:36 PM
 
Location: State of Being
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Ooohhhh! I was going to bring them up yesterday!! GOAT really missed that when he didn't mention them.

I was going to mention the whole "JFK was killed, the Beatles came to America" aspect of being a Boomer. Well done, Anifani! (Me too, BTW. And probably most Boomers I know for a whole lot of different reasons.)
Thank you, thank you so much for responding to that. I started to write it yesterday, started to post it earlier today and erased it . . . then decided if this were gonna be an honest discussion, I had to say it!

To make a very long story short, my education, career, avocation, hobbies are all in some way attributable to the Beatles, lol. Sounds crazy, but it is the truth. Of course, I didn't realize this consciously until I was into my 40s.

All You Need Is Love!
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Old 09-02-2011, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
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Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
I wasn't yet born when JFK was shot, but I have very vivid memories of the Challenger explosion. I was in lit class, watching it live. One of my earliest memories is sitting in the living room with my parents as they watched coverage of Nixon's impeachment. Tiananmen Square occurred during my Junior year of college. I am the quintessential X-er.
Funny. My history book had Tienanmen Square on the cover. It was a picture of the guy in front of the tank, and my sister said she remembered watching that live on TV. That made her feel old.
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Old 09-02-2011, 12:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
20 years ago a woman was looked down upon societally for choosing to breastfeed (what are you a baboon?) and wanting to stay home with the kids (don't you have any ambition? don't you want a career?). Now those things are considered the "right" thing to do.
My oldest son is 17 years old so I was pregnant around 18 years ago. At that time there was a trend towards increasing rates of breastfeeding. My mother actually asked me why I would want to "revert" to breastfeeding!!!!! She also told me that it would be "a waste" if I didn't return to work (which I did).

My mother was born in 1941. I was born in 1965. It really does tie up very neatly in the generation theory. I also agree that my generation tends to be totally overprotective (it actually worries me) while my parents generation pretty much let us run wild when we were kids.
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Old 09-02-2011, 12:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Ooohhhh! I was going to bring them up yesterday!! GOAT really missed that when he didn't mention them.

I was going to mention the whole "JFK was killed, the Beatles came to America" aspect of being a Boomer. Well done, Anifani! (Me too, BTW. And probably most Boomers I know for a whole lot of different reasons.)
Ah, The Beatles. A very important moment in the counterculture movement and probably a much less divisive topic than Vietnam. If we want to think about the ethos of the Boomer/counterculture rebellion, what better group to study than the Beatles.

There was most definitely a generational divide with the Beatles and let's not forget Elvis' gyrating hips and rock and roll in general. Who can forget the stodgy guy in glasses breaking a record declaring that "rock and roll is a fad that will never catch on"?

When the Beatlemania was reaching a fever pitch in England, the US establishment was still fighting back against it. Capitol Records refused to release "Please Please Me" and "From Me to You" do to their suggestive content. They also took a stern and disapproving stance on the Beatle's "moptops". Even when they started releasing songs, they were very carefully chosen and the US LP's were not the same as the ones released in Britain. When the Beatles appeared on Ed Sullivan, parents were rather aghast and reviewers claimed "they couldn't carry a tune across the Atlantic."

If we are going on the current of counterculture unification bringing together disparate groups defining a generation, there was probably no larger moment than when the Beatles met Bob Dylan, who introduced them to marijuana in a NYC hotel room.

Dylan epitomized the "college kids with artistic or intellectual leanings, a dawning political and social idealism, and a mildly bohemian style". This contrasted with the Beatles who epitomized "veritable teenyboppers—kids in high school or grade school whose lives were totally wrapped up in the commercialized popular culture of television, radio, pop records, fan magazines, and teen fashion. They were seen as idolaters, not idealists."

Within 6 months the Beatles began to change and Lennon started to borrow inspiration from Dylan. Within a year Dylan had shaken his folk image. The rock and folk crowds were coming together and the Beatles audience was growing up. The Beatles evolved with their "teenybopper" fans right into the counterculture movement. Who can forget the outrage among the older generation when Lennon declared in an interview, "Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue about that; I'm right and I will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first, rock 'n' roll or Christianity."

I'm sure your parents were outraged and disgusted. You good counterculture Boomers knew what he really meant.
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Old 09-02-2011, 01:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Another is the change in my aunt when my uncle-- a parajumper-- went missing. (He's still listed as missing, btw. She passed away a few years ago; I like to think she's finally got her answers.)
You just punched me in the gut, Aconite. I didn't protest Vietnam. I didn't serve in Vietnam. I was a volunteer with the National League of Families of POWs and MIAs. I worked with the wives at very the beginning of the whole movement. Grassroots. Before the flags. Before the bracelets. When nobody but the wives and families gave a %&$@.

I am so sorry to know your family went through that. Maybe more than anyone else in this discussion (besides you) I know exactly what that means. I feel like all the air has left my body.

Last edited by DewDropInn; 09-02-2011 at 01:12 PM..
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