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I ran out into the street once without looking when I was about 5 or 6. I remember seeing the headlights of the car as my dad snatched me out of it's way. I didn't realize then that my life was in danger but my dad made it pretty clear - by swatting me on the behind - that I was to never go out into the street without holding an adults hand. He could have given me a time out or made me stand in the corner. But considering the gravity of the situation he did what he felt he had to do. I never gave him grief about it nor do I feel that he was being a bully.
I personally like time outs (they work for me) or taking them out of a situation and I'm sure I'll graduate to something else as my kids get older and more sophisticated. But if I am put into a situation where a spanking is in order I can't say that I would never do it. If my child unlocked her seat belt while I was driving... well, I just might spank her for that. I think it's sanctimonious and nosy for those to look down on parents who are just trying to keep their kids safe and in line thru a swat on the behind.
I ran out into the street once without looking when I was about 5 or 6. I remember seeing the headlights of the car as my dad snatched me out of it's way. I didn't realize then that my life was in danger but my dad made it pretty clear - by swatting me on the behind - that I was to never go out into the street without holding an adults hand. He could have given me a time out or made me stand in the corner. But considering the gravity of the situation he did what he felt he had to do. I never gave him grief about it nor do I feel that he was being a bully.
I personally like time outs (they work for me) or taking them out of a situation and I'm sure I'll graduate to something else as my kids get older and more sophisticated. But if I am put into a situation where a spanking is in order I can't say that I would never do it. If my child unlocked her seat belt while I was driving... well, I just might spank her for that. I think it's sanctimonious and nosy for those to look down on parents who are just trying to keep their kids safe and in line thru a swat on the behind.
I had this same situation whith my 8 year old when he was 4. He ran out into the street with my mom and she swatted his bottom and you know what, he never did it again.
My sister-in-law carries a snickers bar in her purse so if her daughter acts up, she gives her candy to shut her up. This is not something I would ever stand for with my kids but for her she feels it is the right thing.
The only thing with that is, the kid will be bouncing off the walls when the sugar kicks in! Seriously though, I'm certainly not here to judge anyone, and it is obvious most of us are looking out for our children's best interest. Parenting is never easy, and spanking or no spanking, we all make mistakes. One thing I do I try and remember to do that my parents were never able to do, and are STILL not able to do, is to say "I'm sorry". Our kids need to know that parents are not perfect and are bound to make mistakes, and taking responsibility for one's actions and letting children know we are not without fault, is a good start.
The only thing with that is, the kid will be bouncing off the walls when the sugar kicks in! Seriously though, I'm certainly not here to judge anyone, and it is obvious most of us are looking out for our children's best interest. Parenting is never easy, and spanking or no spanking, we all make mistakes. One thing I do I try and remember to do that my parents were never able to do, and are STILL not able to do, is to say "I'm sorry". Our kids need to know that parents are not perfect and are bound to make mistakes, and taking responsibility for one's actions and letting children know we are not without fault, is a good start.
That's absolutely right. Everybody makes mistakes in raising children. You always want to do better than your parents where in one or the other thing. I don't believe that scolding a child in public is bad because they have to know how to behave in public and if something goes wrong, well...
But I can imagine how people look if your child is acting up and you don't do anything. It's just the other way round. So you have to live with "Why doesn't she do anything against this bad behaviour" or with "What a mother - she's scolding and disciplining her kid in public".
As my son is only three and a half months old I will wait and see but I think that I'll live with the latter.
The only thing with that is, the kid will be bouncing off the walls when the sugar kicks in! Seriously though, I'm certainly not here to judge anyone, and it is obvious most of us are looking out for our children's best interest. Parenting is never easy, and spanking or no spanking, we all make mistakes. One thing I do I try and remember to do that my parents were never able to do, and are STILL not able to do, is to say "I'm sorry". Our kids need to know that parents are not perfect and are bound to make mistakes, and taking responsibility for one's actions and letting children know we are not without fault, is a good start.
You are sooo right. I can only hope that my kids forgive me for not being perfect and I know they'll be hard on me until they have kids of their own. So until then, I'll do what I'll can to admit when I was wrong (of course, I'm sure I'll be apologizing until I die). My parents never apologized when they should have so, even now - to my 3 year old - I'll kneel down, hug her... and tell her "I'm sorry." I don't think she even knows what that means yet...
You are sooo right. I can only hope that my kids forgive me for not being perfect and I know they'll be hard on me until they have kids of their own. So until then, I'll do what I'll can to admit when I was wrong (of course, I'm sure I'll be apologizing until I die). My parents never apologized when they should have so, even now - to my 3 year old - I'll kneel down, hug her... and tell her "I'm sorry." I don't think she even knows what that means yet...
Oh, I'm sure she does. How sweet that is..... That is the only thing we can do. To this day, my parents have never said they were sorry for what I believe, was abuse at the time. But still, after a lot of thereapy. I am now beginning to forgive and to accept the fact that they did the best that they could possibly do, and their parents probably made the same, or even more mistakes then they did. We only have one set of parents so, forgive, move on, and learn with our own children....a lot easier said than done though.
As for spanking my kids, I do it when I know it is the last resort. It doesn't happen often but I believe when I do it there is no other choice. I even tell them that if they don't stop they will get a spank. (I am not talking about toddlers)
My middle son who is ADHD sometimes would only respond to the physical smack on the butt. Words were not strong enough for him. Sending him to his room or to the corner would never work! It's like trying to stand a puppy in the corner. If he was sent to his room he would completely destroy it. Why drag it out? A spank on the bum and we can all move on.
I know there are many people who would never spank but maybe thats whats wrong with society. We have been criticized for spanking so much that we are afraid to touch our children. Have we become too soft as a society? If I was capable of micro managing my life to the extent of a lengthy time out for discipline then maybe my opinion would differ. That isn't going to happen in my lifetime so a smack on the bum is a lot quicker and makes the point. My youngest gets very few spanks because he has learned that he doesn't like it. When he knows he is misbehaving to the point of a spank I give him a choice. Stop it or spank. Simple enough.
That is how animals do it. When a baby wolf, bear, fox etc. is annoyed at their baby they smack it with their paw. Or they bite the baby until it yelps. Like the Savage Garden song says,
'Animals and children
tell the truth they never lie
which one is more human
theres a thought now you decide."
My 3 boys are very well functioning kids. My 15 year old is kind, sensitive and unbelievably great with kids. My 9 year old ADHD son who was a violent, mean kid on Ritalin is now controlling himself to the point of no medication. My 6 year old is a picture perfect happy boy.
They are all growing up with the occasionally warranted spank.
Just a question, no harm intended. Are you apologizing for disciplining or are you apologizing for feeling like you were to harsh. I have never had to apologize to my child for discipline, other than to say. "Mommy didn't mean to hurt your feelings but you can't run across the street, you could get very hurt." (this as an example only). I don't apologize for how I discipline but I do explain why they were in trouble. Just curious what everyone is apologizing for. Are you taking your punishment to far or just feel guilty? I don't mean anything bad, just a question.
Why do people not realize that you can set limits and consequences for certain types of behavior WITHOUT HITTING? You can sugarcoat it all you want and call it "spanking" or "swatting" but the fact remains that it is HITTING. Discipline is simple, really...you set boundaries, and when those boundaries are crossed, you CONSISTENTLY give your children the consequences, whether it be time-outs, loss of privelege, etc. The key is consistency. No violence is needed.
I agree with your points on how to consistently discipline. I applaud you on your recognition that consistency is the key. You are, however, missing the other key component of discipline. You must have their attention. This is not always easy, especially in a distraction filled environment such as a store.
I found that when my children were small, warnings and verbal admonishment worked very well. As they grew older and more headstrong, they realized that if they escalated their behavior I would either have to escalate mine or permit them to control the situation. I would not permit a contest of wills in a public place and would not sit on the floor with them and explain why they had to walk instead of being carried when they were already school age. So, for my son, I had to promise him that if he persisted I would physically carry him to the car and spank him if he so desired. I had to carry that promise out only once before he understood that he was not in charge.
I have followed the consistency methodology of applying warning, reward and withholding of reward, time-outs, etc... Much of the time it works, sometimes it fails with a determined child. I agree that if you are capable of staying home for months at a time and do not need to go out in public it will always be a winning method over time. Unfortunately, we cannot stay home for months without going out in public to shop and do other errands, nor can we leave the child at home while we do those necessary things. The most effective compromise is judicious corporal punishment at those times ordinary disciplinary methods are being challanged and life places time and location demands on us that are in conflict with standard practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by go phillies
My son is entering kindergarten, and his preschool teachers for the past 2 years have done nothing but praise what a good-natured, friendly, loving and RESPECTFUL child he is. He's never been hit, although like I said, there are consequences for bad behavior as well as rewards for good behavior. I contrast that with other kids I have witnessed in his classes who were little monsters...not listening, talking back, even hitting and kicking their parents...and those kids I observed the parents threatening them with a "spanking." Go figure. A child whose parents get their way through physical force will also try to get his way through physical force. My bet is that most school bullies are "spanked" at home.
I am very happy that you have a child that has a mindset compatible with such disciplinary methods. My daughter was also such a child. My son grew out of that by 2nd grade and required a firmer hand until 5th grade. My sister felt that corporal punishment was so undesireable that it could not be justified under any circumstance. 4 children later, it has become a standard part of her routine. Her first child was so resistant to her nonviolent methods that we were afraid for the safety of her second child. The elder would hit, pinch and push the baby around when mom was out of sight and no amount of talking made any difference. He did not straighten out until my wife put the fear of "auntie" into him at age 8. He became very well behaved when my wife was around and when my sister asked how she did it, my wife told her. Her response was "I told him that if he hit her ever again and I found out about it, I would beat his butt and if he complained to his mother I would call him a liar. I told him that I would make his life miserable anytime mom was not around and nobody would believe him." He found this a credible threat and has not called her on it. I think it is because he could tell she was fully capable of following up on the threat. She never had to strike him, but she was ready to if he chose that route.
Corporal punishment is not an evil unto itself if used in a thoughtful and appropriate manner. There is no good in beating or abusing a child of any age, and swats or spankings should be performed in an age appropriate manner. Some children are too small for physical punishment, others are too emotionally ill-adjusted. Most are not and corporal punishment can be effective in maintaining control of a situation and enforcing standard disciplinary methods.
I can count on one hand how many "swats" my daughter has received in her lifetime, but it would take several people's hands to count my son's. Every child is different. Some forms of discipline work better than others on specific people. My daughter was sensitive to our expectations of her and our dissapointment was all that was necessary for her to recognize when she did wrong. My son was more self oriented and only when his interests were interrupted would he even take notice that anyone else was around.
Both children are now grown (17 and 23) and are very well behaved and respected by teachers, peers and co-workers. They are kind to small children, small animals, and respectful toward other people. I cannot see that their experiences with corporal punishment has had anything but good consequences.
With respect to your complaint that "spankers always quote the bible to justify it". I will confess that although the bible does tell us that to spare the rod is to spoil the child, I do not take that as a literal command to beat our children. I view the rod as a measure of righteousness and believe the command is to hold our children accountable for their actions and to judge those actions by the rod, ie our view of morality and goodness. I do believe that it does not condemn corporal punishment, but advocates discipline by whatever means necessary and appropriate to the situation.
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Seriously though, I'm certainly not here to judge anyone, and it is obvious most of us are looking out for our children's best interest. Parenting is never easy, and spanking or no spanking, we all make mistakes. One thing I do I try and remember to do that my parents were never able to do, and are STILL not able to do, is to say "I'm sorry". Our kids need to know that parents are not perfect and are bound to make mistakes, and taking responsibility for one's actions and letting children know we are not without fault, is a good start. 
I am now beginning to forgive and to accept the fact that they did the best that they could possibly do, and their parents probably made the same, or even more mistakes then they did. We only have one set of parents so, forgive, move on, and learn with our own children....a lot easier said than done though. 
