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But we are talking about children and forming their mindset for adulthood. You could also write the people who have done the studies and wrote the articles on Bullies becoming abusive and domestic violence and ask them how they have come to these conclusions.
I don't think any professional, educated person would come to the conclusion that a child DEFENDING himself AGAINST a bully is a bully himself, and therefore likely to grow up and beat his wife. That is just plain ridiculous.
But as it seems as though I'm talking to a brick wall, I will leave well enough alone.
I don't think any professional, educated person would come to the conclusion that a child DEFENDING himself AGAINST a bully is a bully himself, and therefore likely to grow up and beat his wife. That is just plain ridiculous.
But as it seems as though I'm talking to a brick wall, I will leave well enough alone.
I mus follow your excellent example as my head shaking is making me dizzy.
The means of learning to deal with peers was not always learning the best solution. At school, my learning consisted of simply fearing and avoiding the bullies to the point where I was scared of my own shadow.
But one thing that I feel was different then is that kids hung out in multi-aged groups. Sometimes the older kids could show a younger kid the benefit of standing up for themselves.
Well I meant learning to deal with peers long before the child is in school. My point was that kids from large families with a lot of interaction with other kids as 2 year olds may know how to just stay out of the pecking order battles at school. I wonder if the increase in bullying problems has more to do with kids who are protected from working things out at young ages and their first encounters with peers is with school.
Why are some kids never bullied or are victims of bullies? Why are there kids who are not part of these relationship dynamics at all? They go through school with few problems, never had to clobber a bully to avoid being bullied?
I agree that the best solution is the bully's family should be told what is going on and helped to raise their child so that s/he does not act that way.
But in many cases, a child who's a bully has either been bullied in the home or is being raised with no supervision or poor supervision.
I think that the parents should be told what's going on and offered ways to help their child, but in case the parents are wholly uninterested in fixing anything (highly likely), then it would behoove the person being bullied to defend themselves by any means necessary.
As a reformed child bully (at times), let me tell you from firsthand knowledge, the only way to make a bully stop (other than parental and therapeutic intervention) is to make the bullying simply not worth the bully's time and efforts. The only way to do that is for the person being bullied to either to 1) outsmart or 2) outpower the bully. It really is as simple as that.
Well I meant learning to deal with peers long before the child is in school. My point was that kids from large families with a lot of interaction with other kids as 2 year olds may know how to just stay out of the pecking order battles at school. I wonder if the increase in bullying problems has more to do with kids who are protected from working things out at young ages and their first encounters with peers is with school.
I wonder if there is not so much an increase in bullying as an increase in awareness. But I am not sure.
One thing I think is the case to some degree is that parental view of discipline has changed. It affects many, many things including bullying.
I think that the old punitive, obedience based discipline is (RIGHTLY) being cast aside. But it is not always being replaced with something that is effective. I think many parents are rudderless with balancing being positive, respectful and loving with effectively teaching children expected behavior. Without knowledge of what to replace the bad stuff, the parents don't know how to really require the behavior that is right.
Thus the parents of bullies don't know what to DO. By the time they are 10, 11 years old, even if they WANTED to go back to the punitive, obedience based bad old days, it is likely too late.
I could write a thesis on this. But I won't.
Quote:
Why are some kids never bullied or are victims of bullies? Why are there kids who are not part of these relationship dynamics at all? They go through school with few problems, never had to clobber a bully to avoid being bullied?
Self confidence. It radiates. Bullies prey on the lacking in confidence as a means to attempt to bolster their own.
I'm not sure that a child who doesn't learn how to maneuver the bullying world will be able to adequately function in an adult society.
Life isn't always pleasant and lots of people su*k.
It is the art of getting around all that diplomatically that will serve you well as an adult.
I don't think a child should have to be afraid, but as parents we also have to teach them that the world isn't always a sunny place.
Childhood conflicts and learning how to resolve them is important.
I'm not sure that a child who doesn't learn how to maneuver the bullying world will be able to adequately function in an adult society.
Life isn't always pleasant and lots of people su*k.
It is the art of getting around all that diplomatically that will serve you well as an adult.
I don't think a child should have to be afraid, but as parents we also have to teach them that the world isn't always a sunny place.
Childhood conflicts and learning how to resolve them is important.
But bullying is more than unpleasantness. Many times it's downright abuse and assault that is happening. We don't expect adults to deal with it on their own, do we?
But bullying is more than unpleasantness. Many times it's downright abuse and assault that is happening. We don't expect adults to deal with it on their own, do we?
It is not so much a matter of expectation. Obviously we want law enforcement that can protect our basic rights. But from the standpoint of what is in our best interest, it is not in our best interest to RELY on law enforcement.
In my opinion, we should develop our own self reliance as much as possible and regard law enforcement/government or whatever as a back up to protecting our rights and entitlements if only because they can be unreliable and fail us.
I have handled abuse and assault myself. I have called in law enforcement.
So don't get me wrong. We should be addressing bullying behavior at the source. NO DOUBT.
But each of us should also teach our children to handle themselves.
Self confidence. It radiates. Bullies prey on the lacking in confidence as a means to attempt to bolster their own.
I do agree w/ this. I was bullied as a kid. I was the shy, skinny, smart kid. I was a target because I wouldn't 'fight back'. I am now extremely self confident. If you like me, great, if not, your loss. I don't let anyone bully me. Having said that, I am always talking to the kids at my kids' school about being nice to everyone, etc, etc. My son is the same, shy, thin, smart kid I was. I hope he's not bullied. My girl, she's outgoing & I'm more afraid SHE'D be a bully. Well, maybe more her bff. She's the one that insists everyone follows her lead. Hmmm, just like her Mom. lol
I wonder if there is not so much an increase in bullying as an increase in awareness. But I am not sure.
One thing I think is the case to some degree is that parental view of discipline has changed. It affects many, many things including bullying.
I think that the old punitive, obedience based discipline is (RIGHTLY) being cast aside. But it is not always being replaced with something that is effective. I think many parents are rudderless with balancing being positive, respectful and loving with effectively teaching children expected behavior. Without knowledge of what to replace the bad stuff, the parents don't know how to really require the behavior that is right.
Thus the parents of bullies don't know what to DO. By the time they are 10, 11 years old, even if they WANTED to go back to the punitive, obedience based bad old days, it is likely too late.
I could write a thesis on this. But I won't.
Self confidence. It radiates. Bullies prey on the lacking in confidence as a means to attempt to bolster their own.
Yes, maybe it's awareness, even going too far in it.
In the past it was a whole lot more common for the mothers in a neighborhood to send their kids out to play and the kids would roam freely and many interactions kids had was out of the earshot and sight of adults.
Parents didn't care to know every move kids made, name calling, teasing were all just childish things kids did -- kids were not expected to be always politically correct, always polite with other kids and very sensitive to feelings of other kids. If a group of boys put up a tree house with a sign that said "no girls allowed", the old-style parents of the past wouldn't have become involved. Today those boys would be viewed as bullies and the girls as victims. Back then it was just how kids played.
Also in the past, true bullies were pretty rare, a socially inept kid might have gotten into name calling or threatening others even as a way to get attention when he or she felt left out but today would be labeled a bully. Kids were also discouraged from becoming tattle-tales, but today they're encouraged to tell the teachers and parents about everything that bothers them. And constantly the schools are doing bully awareness programs and helping more kids feel they're being victimized.
5 year olds have always grabbed crayons from others, or intentionally broken the crayons of some other kid, kids have always fought over some toy, kids have always made fun of other kids' names, shoes, teeth, hair - something but in the past it was just viewed as childish and immature, today it's seen as pathological.
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