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Old 09-29-2011, 06:24 AM
 
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It might be helpful to lose the bully/victim paradigm. At my school we focus on bullying only as an action and never as a person. Why? Because the studies show us that the vast majority of kids have bullied other kids as well as been bullied themselves. When you recognize that it is an action, and NOT A LABEL, you make it easier to deal with the behavior.

Setting up a victim mentality in the child who was bullied does that one no good either.

So while I agree that many bullying behaviors are seen in many younger children, like other behaviors we expect them as they grow to mature and stop engaging in those behaviors. The problem with the "kids will be kids" mentality is that we are encouraging children to use bullying behaviors to get what they want. For example, we do not use the "kids will be kids" to deal with bed wetting or thumbsucking on middle schoolers so why should we do it here.

What I frequently see in high schoolers who exhibit bullying behaviors is that they are intellectually mature to their age level but frequently not emotionally mature to their age level. Meaning they are smart enough to inflict a large amount of harm but not mature enough emotionally to understand the consequences.

So that is why even though I agree that pushing, taking crayons etc is common behavior found in the very young I also think their emotional maturity needs to be full encouraged through bullying and sensitivity courses. Many parents are not teaching these things because in the old paradigm kids ran around the neighborhoods in unsupervised groups and worked out their own emotional mature peer dynamic (i.e. if you bully so and so no one will play with you). Since that rarely happens anymore someone needs to make sure kids are getting those lessons.
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Old 09-29-2011, 10:10 AM
 
1,677 posts, read 2,477,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
It might be helpful to lose the bully/victim paradigm. At my school we focus on bullying only as an action and never as a person. Why? Because the studies show us that the vast majority of kids have bullied other kids as well as been bullied themselves. When you recognize that it is an action, and NOT A LABEL, you make it easier to deal with the behavior.

Setting up a victim mentality in the child who was bullied does that one no good either.

So while I agree that many bullying behaviors are seen in many younger children, like other behaviors we expect them as they grow to mature and stop engaging in those behaviors. The problem with the "kids will be kids" mentality is that we are encouraging children to use bullying behaviors to get what they want. For example, we do not use the "kids will be kids" to deal with bed wetting or thumbsucking on middle schoolers so why should we do it here.

What I frequently see in high schoolers who exhibit bullying behaviors is that they are intellectually mature to their age level but frequently not emotionally mature to their age level. Meaning they are smart enough to inflict a large amount of harm but not mature enough emotionally to understand the consequences.

So that is why even though I agree that pushing, taking crayons etc is common behavior found in the very young I also think their emotional maturity needs to be full encouraged through bullying and sensitivity courses. Many parents are not teaching these things because in the old paradigm kids ran around the neighborhoods in unsupervised groups and worked out their own emotional mature peer dynamic (i.e. if you bully so and so no one will play with you). Since that rarely happens anymore someone needs to make sure kids are getting those lessons.
Excellent point. I don't think it's helpful to label a kid as a bully because they don't like someone and feel like they need to show that person they don't like them. It's HOW they choose to show it that is the problem. Name calling, snubbing (you can't sit at our lunch table type behavior) and making fun of physical appearance can be worked out without the perpetrator being labeled bully and the receiver taking on the victim stance.

I think parents need to teach their kid what they can handle themselves and what they shouldn't have to put up with. There will always be someone who doesn't like you, doesn't like the way you talk or look, don't want you around. To encourage kids to cry victim every time somebody hurts their feelings is doing them a disservice. But when it comes to physical violence or public degradation such as on Facebook, that is when it's time to take action. It's amazing how much worse things are since the advent of digital socialization. When I was in school, we fought and it was over with. What was said was said face to face. But people seem so much crueler and nastier when they're sitting behind a computer.
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
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Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
Take your kid to a few school functions and watch how the other kids react to yours. Are just a few kids associating with yours? What are the expressions on the faces of the other kids who go to school with yours? Read the other kids' body language. Talk to your kid. What do they have to say about the kids they go to school with? Your kids give you signs, if you're looking
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:01 AM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,378,354 times
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Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
Take your kid to a few school functions and watch how the other kids react to yours. Are just a few kids associating with yours? What are the expressions on the faces of the other kids who go to school with yours? Read the other kids' body language. Talk to your kid. What do they have to say about the kids they go to school with? Your kids give you signs, if you're looking
Most parents are not engaging with their kids enough. And if there is something that takes further attention there are parents that ignore it because they dont want to deal with it.
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Old 10-01-2011, 06:37 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,154,050 times
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How "engaged" are parents supposed to be?

I'm sure by now most of you know how against bullying I am. But I also know that children can act in two VERY different ways with/without their parents' presence.
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Old 10-01-2011, 07:36 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,629,092 times
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Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
How "engaged" are parents supposed to be?

I'm sure by now most of you know how against bullying I am. But I also know that children can act in two VERY different ways with/without their parents' presence.

I can only speak to what I think would be appropriate but I would like to see parents whose children have engaged in bullying behaviors, to not immediately claim that their child would NEVER bully anyone else and/or "kids will be kids".

I think it is because we see bullying as extremes, some people think it is evil and that those who do it are horrible children, or they see it as something that is not a very big deal. In reality it is just an unacceptable behavior that some otherwise decent children engage in. The real problem with bullying is the consequence to the other child but since we know most children who have been bullied also engage in bullying behaviors, the idea that the behavior is unacceptable is not getting through to most kids.

I live in the state with the toughest anti-bullying laws in the country, and we still have issues with it. We work on it as a school everyday and we are a tiny school with some of the "nicest" kids around. Learning to negotiate social situations without bullying anyone, without anyone bullying you, or when others are being bullied, is a skill that needs to be taught, discussed, reinforced both positively and negatively. Just like any other skill.
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Old 10-01-2011, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,003 posts, read 11,681,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
How "engaged" are parents supposed to be?

I'm sure by now most of you know how against bullying I am. But I also know that children can act in two VERY different ways with/without their parents' presence.
That's why you take your child somewhere (older? a football game?) and you DON'T watch the football game. You watch your child. If you, as a parent, remember bullies from your childhood, you darn sure know the signs of a bully when you see one. It's a matter of climbing out of your little denial cave and paying attention to your kids.

If your kid is controlling at home, constantly talking crap about certain kids at school, odds are, there's a huge chance that your child is (or will be) a bully. If you are the kind of parent who is constantly talking crap and being judgemental of others, it's highly likely that your kid is going to be a bully.
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:38 AM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,378,354 times
Reputation: 3050
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I can only speak to what I think would be appropriate but I would like to see parents whose children have engaged in bullying behaviors, to not immediately claim that their child would NEVER bully anyone else and/or "kids will be kids".

I think it is because we see bullying as extremes, some people think it is evil and that those who do it are horrible children, or they see it as something that is not a very big deal. In reality it is just an unacceptable behavior that some otherwise decent children engage in. The real problem with bullying is the consequence to the other child but since we know most children who have been bullied also engage in bullying behaviors, the idea that the behavior is unacceptable is not getting through to most kids.

I live in the state with the toughest anti-bullying laws in the country, and we still have issues with it. We work on it as a school everyday and we are a tiny school with some of the "nicest" kids around. Learning to negotiate social situations without bullying anyone, without anyone bullying you, or when others are being bullied, is a skill that needs to be taught, discussed, reinforced both positively and negatively. Just like any other skill.
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:42 AM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,378,354 times
Reputation: 3050
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
That's why you take your child somewhere (older? a football game?) and you DON'T watch the football game. You watch your child. If you, as a parent, remember bullies from your childhood, you darn sure know the signs of a bully when you see one. It's a matter of climbing out of your little denial cave and paying attention to your kids.

If your kid is controlling at home, constantly talking crap about certain kids at school, odds are, there's a huge chance that your child is (or will be) a bully. If you are the kind of parent who is constantly talking crap and being judgemental of others, it's highly likely that your kid is going to be a bully.
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