Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think depression is higher in SAHMs because of the monotony of the "job". There are times, even when the kids go to bed, I think "Now what?" Every day is the same, but different. It's an odd thing. But I also wouldn't want to work full time at this point in our family's life.
Could be. While depression is a chemical imbalance, things in our environment can impact chemical balance within the body.
I do find this odd though. (pesonal experience here) I find that I meet many more women who are working who would rather stay home. You would think that not getting what they want would contribute towards higher depression in this group but it doesn't play out in research. It's SAHM's, who are home because they want to be, I'd assume, who have higher depression rates. Apparently, being happy with your choice isn't the issue here.
LOL about the "inferior results". My kids are not robots or products. They are human beings. I don't care about getting "optimum results". I care that my kids are loved and well taken care of.
Research does not take "jabs". Research is just research. The point, which you missed completely, was that our happiness with our situation doesn't seem to matter. Many times, what we think matters doesn't and we overlook what does. I'll give another example. People think that using grandma or your sister to watch your kids while you work is a good thing but research has found that kith and kin care (use of relatives and friends to provide day care) is the only form of day care that produces, consistently, inferior results. Sometimes, research is a reality check.
What does your link to time on line and depression have to do with this discussion? (seems to me you're the one taking jabs here. ) And actually, it's computer time in general. It has to do with the flickering screen. You actually see the same effect in people who watch too much TV as well, to a lesser extent (thought to be because we tend to look away from the screen more and do other things while watching TV like fold clothes, walk on a treadmill, etc, etc, etc...). This also could have to do with lack of sunshine...exercise...and a host of other things that change when one participates in one activity too much but we, first, must define too much and recognize that too much for one person isn't too much for another.
I once worked for a company that put the entire staff through physicals and stress reduction testing/training because of one workaholic they were sure would drop dead at his desk. He turned out to have the lowest stress levels of all of us in spite of looking/acting like he was going to implode several times a day. Working 80 hours a week suited him just fine. He, probably, would have dropped dead if they made him retire.
No the person extrapolating the data takes jabs. The topic is about the amount of time spent with kids and whether or not they are successful. Not which one was better. That topic has been beaten to a pulp, and the thread closed. I would prefer to keep this thread open.
What does posting about stay at home moms have to do with this discussion either?
No the person extrapolating the data takes jabs. The topic is about the amount of time spent with kids and whether or not they are successful. Not which one was better. That topic has been beaten to a pulp, and the thread closed. I would prefer to keep this thread open.
UGH. Not at all. First, I'm confused as to why you think I'm "extrapolating" data here??? I see no extrapolation of this data here. Not in the links I posted nor by me..
Which definition of extrapolate did you have in mind here?
"1.to infer (an unknown) from something that is known; conjecture.
2. Statistics . to estimate (the value of a variable) outside the tabulated or observed range.
3. Mathematics . to estimate (a function that is known over a range of values of its independent variable) to values outside "
The first definition does not apply to data (you've accused me of extrapolating data as if that's a bad thing ) and I'm not guilty of the second two because I didn't actually talk about the data....
I'm simply discussing the fact that research does not support being happy with one's choice, the choice to SAH or WOH actually mattering. I'm not sure what you're discussing. When you figure it out, let me know....
UGH. Not at all. First, I am not the person extrapolating the data and I'm confused as to why you think I am??? I see no extrapolation of this data here. Not in the links I posted nor by me..
I'm simply discussing the fact that research does not support being happy with one's choice, the choice to SAH or WOH actually mattering. I'm not sure what you're discussing. When you figure it out, let me know....
THIS IS NOT ABOUT STAY AT HOME MOMS... THE TOPIC IS ABOUT TIME SPENT WITH THE KIDS AND WHETHER OR NOT THE QUANTITY MAKES MORE DIFFERENCE THAN QUALITY.... You managed to close the SAHM thread. If you can't stay on topic, then I will ask Julia to close this thread too.
But research is not and cannot be indicative of everyone's happiness with their choices. How big was the sample size? What was the education of the women who were polled? How was the research conducted?
On my worst days, I'd say I'd rather be a ditch digger than a SAHM. But approach me on the best days and I would sing the praises of my choices. People are dynamic and change day to day.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT STAY AT HOME MOMS... THE TOPIC IS ABOUT TIME SPENT WITH THE KIDS AND WHETHER OR NOT THE QUANTITY MAKES MORE DIFFERENCE THAN QUALITY.... You managed to close the SAHM thread. If you can't stay on topic, then I will ask Julia to close this thread too.
Ack! Sorry jojo. I'll try to keep it to that topic. Damn it, I got sucked in!
According to research, there is more depression among SAHM's, which I find interesting because it doesn't seem to result in negative outcomes for children*. You would think it would but it doesn't appear to. We want to think happiness makes a difference but there's really nothing to point to it actually making one. Sometimes, what we think matters doesn't.
*Disclaimer for the twist everything I say police here.....correlation does not equal causation. We don't know why this correlation exists. We just know it does. This does not imply a causal relationship and I am not saying it does.
Because someone will ask for some kind of reference (yes I know this isn't a study but this is common knowledge) Depression in Women
"In general, married women experience depression more than single women do, and depression is common among young mothers who stay at home full-time with small children. "
"Employed mothers had lower scores on a measure of depressive mood (the CES-D) and higher scores on a measure of positive morale."
Seriously, I would think maternal morale would make a difference but it doesn't seem to. It's a factor to consider in overall quality of life, for mom, but I don't think it's a decision maker in this case because it's not going to make a difference for her kds. Things like SES and demographics would still top the list.
I'm kind of baffled as to why increased depression doesn't impact kids though. While it's pretty easy to not let your personal feelings on the matter effect your kids when you don't get what you want, I would think it could be tough to just set depression aside. A good mom who would be happier staying home who works because she improves her family's finances isn't going to let the fact she'd be happier at home impact her kids. I'm not sure what's washing out the impact of living with a depressed mom. Logically, that seems like it would be a negative but we're not seeing it in the research.
I will reply to this in more detail when I have time, but I felt it important to say as a research scientist and behavior therapist with a specialty in treating the chronically suicidal (yes, I know a lot about depression both clinically and research-wise):
It is not common knowledge among professionals, treatment or research-wise, that SAHMs experience greater levels of clinical depression than WM.
I will address my specific criticisms of your links when I have a moment, but even if both were pristine sources (which they are not), the results of even a handful of studies with similar results does not make something common knowledge. Please do not overstate the results of limited studies.
I think you raise interesting questions of depression and parenting (particularly mothering) in general. I'll try to pull some links that you may find interesting about the impact (and lack thereof under some conditions) of maternal depression on child outcomes. It is a huge sub-branch of depression literature and has been for quite some time.
ETA: Sorry for the OT post. It is a pet peeve of mine when misinformation about mental health related topics are presented and something I feel compelled to address.
Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 10-09-2011 at 07:23 AM..
Reason: clarification
But research is not and cannot be indicative of everyone's happiness with their choices. How big was the sample size? What was the education of the women who were polled? How was the research conducted?
On my worst days, I'd say I'd rather be a ditch digger than a SAHM. But approach me on the best days and I would sing the praises of my choices. People are dynamic and change day to day.
No it can't but if something like depression and higher morale make no difference, we can conclude that happiness doesn't make a difference (higher morale seen in WM's can be taken as greater happiness with their choice). I'm just saying that our happiness with this choice seems to be transparent to our children. If it weren't, we would be seeing better results in the WOH camp because that's where research actually sees improved morale.
The question that is unanswered is whether or not SAH causes more depression or more depressed moms just choose to SAH. Either way, logic, seems to dictate that we'd see a difference in kids but we really don't. Maternal depression is rarely corrected for in studies yet we see no difference in our kids. I find that rather fascinating. (there are some interesting implications here)
Research has flown in the face of common "logic" before and it's, usually, rejected, which is sad in some cases. Another is grade retention as a means to deal with kids who did not master material. Research supports that grade retention is simply repeating an already failed experiment but the public demands we fail these kids even though research says they will end up worse off in later years. There is a, temporary, benefit seen the year of retention that may last up to 3 years but then the kids end up worse off for having been retained but you can't convince John Q Public of this. People ignore the research. We need a plan B for kids who don't get the material the first time and it can't be to put them in the same situation that led to failure in the first place but we can't get funding to do that because the public is convinced that if we just fail them whatever problem that led to the failure will, somehow, fix itself
There are things that research says that people just want to ignore because they don't support what they want to believe. Mom wants to believe that her happiness makes a difference, so she ignores research that says that maternal morale doesn't matter. She wants to believe that SAH is a better brand of mothering so she ignores research that says it doesn't produce better results. The WM who uses her sister for day care chooses to ignore that kith and kin care is the only form of day care found to deliver consistently inferior results and we think the solution to a child not learning is to fail them and somehow expect different results when all we do is the same thing we did before that led to that failure....
We can be kind of dumb, can't we?
BTW, the point of my post was not that SAHM's experience more depression but that the improved morale seen in WM's does not result in an improvement in child outcomes. The point is, how we feel about this decision doesn't seem to matter. We may want it to matter but research does not support it mattering. I really don't care why SAHM's experience more depression. It may or may not be causal but that's not relevent to this discussion.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
(seems to me you're the one taking jabs here. 
) And actually, it's computer time in general. It has to do with the flickering screen. You actually see the same effect in people who watch too much TV as well, to a lesser extent (thought to be because we tend to look away from the screen more and do other things while watching TV like fold clothes, walk on a treadmill, etc, etc, etc...). This also could have to do with lack of sunshine...exercise...and a host of other things that change when one participates in one activity too much but we, first, must define too much and recognize that too much for one person isn't too much for another.
UGH. Not at all. First, I'm confused as to why you think I'm "extrapolating" data here??? I see no extrapolation of this data here. Not in the links I posted nor by me.. 
