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^^^^^^Great post NJGoat! I wish I could rep you again on this.
I come from a HUGE family. And when I mean huge I mean just that. I have to give the Duggars credit where credit is due. They are a 'whole' family. In this day and age where people easily divorce because they can't handle the financial responsibilties of one small family and seek solace or comfort in the arms of another, the Duggars as a family stick together throught thick and thin of it. I truly believe that if TLC did not exist they would still make amends to ensure that their constantly growing family is taken care of.
My paternal grandmother had 21 kids and not for or by religious means. Her children were either raised by herself, raised by her aunt who was hired as a nanny or given up for adoption. My father and aunt were raised by her aunt and lived in a tiny shack for many years while she had other children who she did care for or given up for adoption. Everytime she was out in town and my father would see her she would deny that he was her son. I currently have aunts and uncles who live all around the world, who are extremely diverse and have taken on the ethinicity of their adoptive parents. Those that know they were adopted maintain contact with my family, the ones that do not will never ever know us or we will never ever know them. My grandmother did not have a choice and lost the plot. My grandmother was very very young when she had her first child. We as a family do not really discuss it because the history behind it all is very dark and bleak.
I wish that my grandmother had a choice like Michele Duggar when it came to having her 21 children. I wish she had a supportive husband like Jim Bob who is constantly by her side and involved in his children's lives. In the case of the Duggars I do not see neglect or the children especially the older ones having contempt to their parents for having a large family. They seem to embrace it and work together as a unit. I do believe that faith plays a big role in Michele's choice on having children and for that I commend her for sticking to her guns and standing by her husbands side in doing so.
As for me would I ever have 21 children like my grandmother or Michele Duggar?? HECK TO THE F NO! As I quote someone else 'My vagina ain't a clown car!'
Self-sufficient? I'm doubtful. Their grocery bill must be atrocious unless they live on ramen and water.
In the early part of the thread, several articles were posted discussing the Duggar's finances. They live entirely debt free and did long before TLC came along. They are heavily invested in commercial real estate as well as several other business ventures such as a towing company and car dealerships and essentially live off of the rental income from the properties and small profits from the businesses. Jim Bob says that the families budget averages around $5,000 a month.
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. I have no problem with people's beliefs, or how many kids they have. But when they use a reality show to fund their lives, make their older children raise the younger kids, and plaster it all on TV, THEN it bothers me.
Plenty of people have large families without getting a reality show to pay their way through life.
I agree.
I have no problems with others' religious beliefs, nor with large families.
I have a problem with parents using their minor children as an income stream.
Because let's face it, without all those kiddos, Jim and Michelle would have no show.
I see no difference between the Duggers, the Kardashians and the Gosslins (although I suppose one could argue that the Kardashian mom at least waited until [most] of her daughters were of legal age before selling them out). They are equally repulsive to me.
If the Duggers don't really need the extra $400K per year (pocket change! ) that makes them exceptionally selfish and greedy. Why not quit and let your kids live a normal and quiet life?
Whose morality are referncing is the second point? Your morality?
Morality is not a code. It is a judgement. So THEIR morality. Reason, judgement.
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Western societies morality? Are you really giving your children a free will choice, or are you teaching them the commonly accepted moral precepts of the society that we live in and those that you personally agree with?
How do you not "foist your atheism" upon your children? Do you take your children to different churches and read them excerpts from the Bible, Torah, Koran and collections of Buddhist writings in a non-objectified way to expose them to these various religions so that they can understand them and make an informed choice when they are older? I'm guessing you don't. I'm guessing that your children are being raised as atheists, not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just that the absence of belief is also a belief.
Well they go to the Lutheran church with their Grandmother. They go to the Catholic church with their other Grandmother. When I went to the Buddhist temple, I did offer. But they are still too young to understand. To them it is just a requirement to sit still.
When we discuss things, we don't answer questions with this is how things are. We answer questions with some people beleive and what do you think? My 8yo daughter asked me the other day where god lives. We talked a bit about what many christians believe. We tried to google Muslim beliefs but found nothing that interested her. When we studied China, we did quite a segment on the various Chinese faiths.
It is not perfect. But who is?
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As for them figuring out what they want to do in their lives, that is the end result for all children. One day they will be adults and free to make their own decisions, even the Duggars kids. However, they will be making those choices based upon the context of the values and morality that you raised them in. I imagine the Duggar's would be disappointed if one of their children decided to become a childless atheist. Probably about as disappointed as you would be if one of your children became a born again Christian and started loading up their quiver.
Why would I be disappointed with that?
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Reallly, not all belief systems are of equal merit? Would you care to enlighten us as to which systems should be considered acceptable?
Ones in which children are not neglected. One in which people are not hurt. I am about objective outcomes. The Jones people had a belief system. AAdn the outcome was that people were lead to mass suicide. Some people were murdered. Oh that is not a belief system, that is a cult. Based on... the outcome.
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Outside of someone else's belief system impacting the way that I am allowed to live my life, I fail to see how any belief system can be considered to have "less merit" than others.
Are you inferring that because I don't judge the merit the same as someone else does that I don't think that they should have the right to do as they see fit? Quite the contrary. No matter what I think of someone else' religion, I would fight with all my small political clout to protect their right to it so long as they are not infringing on someone else' rights.
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I don't think that as a culture we revere religion. It is an integral part to the lives of many people, but it is not culturally revered. Everyone has the right to make their own choice about their beliefs, that right could be considered inalienable. No where are you compelled to support or agree with the religion itself, just support the right of others to believe it and provide reasonable accomodation for those beliefs. At least in the case of the Duggars, they take a live and let live approach. I absolutely detest people who proselytize, but the Duggars don't do that. They don't expect anyone to believe what they believe or live the way they live, why can't we give them the same respect?
Is there some harm in having an opinion? Whom am I hurting? What is respect? Do they post on Christian internet boards about how non Christians are all hell bound? I have no idea. Nor do I care. And if they did, I sure would not consider it disrespectful.
I have no problems with others' religious beliefs, nor with large families.
I have a problem with parents using their minor children as an income stream.
Because let's face it, without all those kiddos, Jim and Michelle would have no show.
I see no difference between the Duggers, the Kardashians and the Gosslins (although I suppose one could argue that the Kardashian mom at least waited until [most] of her daughters were of legal age before selling them out). They are equally repulsive to me.
If the Duggers don't really need the extra $400K per year (pocket change! ) that makes them exceptionally selfish and greedy. Why not quit and let your kids live a normal and quiet life?
If I showed up at your house tomorrow with a camera crew and checkbook and offered you $400k a year to tape your life, what would you do? If $400k wasn't enough, what's your price?
If I showed up at your house tomorrow with a camera crew and checkbook and offered you $400k a year to tape your life, what would you do? If $400k wasn't enough, what's your price?
To be truthful that makes me itchy. I know what I believe and what works for me but I won't judge other belief systems. Who am I to say one belief system has more merit than another? (Too much hippie in my blood.) Besides I like to steal little bits and pieces from other religions to add to my own basic beliefs. Got some sage to burn just the other day.
BTW Getting back to the thread. I think Michelle would judge us MUCH less than we're judging her. She seems very accepting of other people.
To be truthful that makes me itchy. I know what I believe and what works for me but I won't judge other belief systems. Who am I to say one belief system has more merit than another? (Too much hippie in my blood.) Besides I like to steal little bits and pieces from other religions to add to my own basic beliefs. Got some sage to burn just the other day.
I guss it makes me a little twitchy that you WOULDN'T judge a belief system just because it is a belief system. That is kind of what I mean when I say this culture reveres religion. And that is how Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple got away with mass suicide and murder.
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) that makes them exceptionally selfish and greedy. Why not quit and let your kids live a normal and quiet life? 
