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Old 01-14-2012, 12:23 PM
 
Location: You know... That place
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I totally agree with this. Reform can become a more difficult uphill battle once society has negative opinions of a person.
Or it could make them want to prove everyone wrong, and make them a much stronger person because they had to fight for it.
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:49 PM
 
Location: TX
6,486 posts, read 6,371,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by num1baby View Post
Or it could make them want to prove everyone wrong, and make them a much stronger person because they had to fight for it.
How can he prove them all wrong? Can we assume that CBS News is going to do a follow-up story on him becoming your average law-abiding citizen, and that it'll be good enough to counter the stigma of being a drug dealer, a thief, and a liar? No. While his failures are surely being made public to the entire world, his success will most likely be celebrated among friends and family, the forum in which discipline and praise probably SHOULD be administered. And I'm sure the mother will be happy to take some of the responsibility for that...
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,897,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by num1baby View Post
Or it could make them want to prove everyone wrong, and make them a much stronger person because they had to fight for it.
Good point. Wanting to prove "to the world" that one can accomplish something can be a strong motivator for some people, regardless of whether the accomplishment is celebrated by others. It's really hard to say what this mom was attempting to accomplish without knowing more about the situation.
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: TX
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The following articles demonstrate both how this can get out of hand and that psychologists may tend to disagree with the practice.

Mother makes son wear sign to shame him over bad grades

Townsville mother makes son wear humiliating 'I'm a thief' sign | Mail Online

I say, all it takes is for one jerk to yell out "You go, boy!" to completely reverse any progress made in any of their mentalities.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:45 PM
 
1,369 posts, read 2,131,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
A good form of punishment perhaps, but a poor form of discipline. And I dare say it's lazy parenting - YEP! It's just wearing the disguise of active parenting ("She's standing out there with him!") So what? She's still just standing there!

If she really wants to show that she's taking responsibility for her son, she should put a sign on HERSELF that says "And I let him get that way".
I disagree. And this mentality of always blaming the parent is going too far. At some point, a child needs to take responsibility for his or her actions. By blaming the parent, you are essentially lifting the burden of accountability of the kid's shoulder...and I'm not okay with that.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:49 PM
 
Location: TX
6,486 posts, read 6,371,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltheEndofTime View Post
I disagree. And this mentality of always blaming the parent is going too far. At some point, a child needs to take responsibility for his or her actions. By blaming the parent, you are essentially lifting the burden of accountability of the kid's shoulder...and I'm not okay with that.
The burden is on BOTH their shoulders. I'm not blaming either the parent or the child. But I think the parent should take PART of the blame for how their kid turns out as a general rule. Complacency is one of the worst qualities a parent can possess. If you want your kid to improve, you should constantly be trying to do the same.

As for this particular case, I've mentioned numerous problems with what she's doing. Maybe it'll do exactly what she's hoping for, but it's a shot in the dark, really. It could just as easily make things worse, especially if punishment is her only plan for discipline.
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Old 01-14-2012, 10:12 PM
 
Location: You know... That place
1,899 posts, read 2,846,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
The burden is on BOTH their shoulders. I'm not blaming either the parent or the child. But I think the parent should take PART of the blame for how their kid turns out as a general rule. Complacency is one of the worst qualities a parent can possess. If you want your kid to improve, you should constantly be trying to do the same.

As for this particular case, I've mentioned numerous problems with what she's doing. Maybe it'll do exactly what she's hoping for, but it's a shot in the dark, really. It could just as easily make things worse, especially if punishment is her only plan for discipline.
The bolded can be said of ANY form of discipline. Especially if a parent has only one plan.
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Old 01-15-2012, 06:43 AM
 
Location: TX
6,486 posts, read 6,371,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by num1baby View Post
The bolded can be said of ANY form of discipline. Especially if a parent has only one plan.
Perhaps. But there are specific reasons why this method can fail. Anything that humiliates another person so publicly can have long-term effects on their self-esteem and motivation. Say this kid also has some kind of dependency on drugs in addition to selling them. Do you really think, with his pride hurt, he's going to be more able to resist them now? Do you think it will help with the lying, knowing that low self-esteem can often be a springboard for dishonesty?

People can say "He might use it as motivation to prove to them he can change", but the kid's not stupid. He knows that he can only prove himself to a fraction of the people who have now seen him and will forever know him as some sort of failure.

I said recently that a person could yell out from their car, "You go, boy!" or some other praise for what they see on the sign. This could very easily change the kid's mindset, when everyone else is seemingly against him and one person is being friendly. And the other guy would be well within his rights to interfere in this way, which is another reason discipline shouldn't take place in an open forum. A similar problem is how sympathy can affect how successful the punishment is. Persuasion works best when you can gaurantee a consensus on your side vs. the one you're trying to persuade. So much as one dissenter gives them more fuel to disagree with you, generally speaking.

This is not to mention what psychologists have said about this form of punishment building resentment of the parent. There's more, but you get the idea.
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:28 AM
 
1,369 posts, read 2,131,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
The burden is on BOTH their shoulders. I'm not blaming either the parent or the child. But I think the parent should take PART of the blame for how their kid turns out as a general rule. Complacency is one of the worst qualities a parent can possess. If you want your kid to improve, you should constantly be trying to do the same.

As for this particular case, I've mentioned numerous problems with what she's doing. Maybe it'll do exactly what she's hoping for, but it's a shot in the dark, really. It could just as easily make things worse, especially if punishment is her only plan for discipline.
I will have to disagree. Once a kid gets to a certain age, he/she needs to start taking responsibility for his/her actions, and parents can no longer be blamed.

I personally think this is a brilliant form of punishment. It isn't lazy parenting. Lazy parenting would be to do nothing.
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,897,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post

People can say "He might use it as motivation to prove to them he can change", but the kid's not stupid. He knows that he can only prove himself to a fraction of the people who have now seen him and will forever know him as some sort of failure.
snip
This is not to mention what psychologists have said about this form of punishment building resentment of the parent. There's more, but you get the idea.
As I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't use this strategy myself and agree that it could have more detrimental effects than positive ones. Where I take exception is when people start making global statements about how the kid would react, what led up to it, what will likely follow. You don't know that and neither do I. One need not be stupid to use a negative experience as a motivator for change - "proving oneself" does not have to be about recognition from others. It's one possible reaction in a sea of possible reactions.
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