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I am sorry that this is OT, but I have to ask what an Engineer is. I had never heard of an Engineer before coming to this site. What do they do?
I'm degreed in chemical engineering. I spent most of my time disigning parts for automobiles or manufacturing them. Engineers do varied jobs. I've designed parts, tested them, managed major equipment installations and supervised production just to name a few. Most engineering jobs have something to do with improving processes...finding new ways to do things...improving products.
I found it to be a great job to have as a parent. Lots of flexibility if you're not tied to a production schedule. You wouldn't think that but I spent much of my time either gathering data or analyzing it and I could do both at 4:00 in the morning if I wanted to get off at noon to make it to the school for story time.
Wow, it shows a real lack of confidence and maturity if you let trivial things such as SAH vs working debates get to you.
People do what's best for THEIR families. What happens beyond that is pretty irrelevant if you ask me...
Sigh....not even close. I'll repeat what I said before. I deal with this attitude in family. In the press and on TV I can just laugh at the stupidity. So I'm trying to figure it out. It's not logical.
So back to your regularly scheduled post....Why do some SAHM's think they deserve accolades from society for what they do? As I said before, I don't see this attitude in dads or WM's. It seems to be unique to SAHM's. Why the need for pats on the back from outside their family?
I have stayed home but it never occured to me that anyone other than my family should care about that. Personally, I felt lucky to not have to work. It's a lot easier to get things done without a job. I understand wanting to stay home. I don't get thinking you're somehow better because you do.
Sigh....not even close. I'll repeat what I said before. I deal with this attitude in family. In the press and on TV I can just laugh at the stupidity. So I'm trying to figure it out. It's not logical.
So back to your regularly scheduled post....Why do some SAHM's think they deserve accolades from society for what they do? As I said before, I don't see this attitude in dads or WM's. It seems to be unique to SAHM's. Why the need for pats on the back from outside their family?
I have stayed home but it never occured to me that anyone other than my family should care about that. Personally, I felt lucky to not have to work. It's a lot easier to get things done without a job. I understand wanting to stay home. I don't get thinking you're somehow better because you do.
In my experience, it's working mothers who think they deserve some sort of special praise. After all, they do what SAHMs do on top of having a 40/hr week job, right?
(FTR, I am a working mom. I just strongly dislike people who believe their option is better than the other, whether they SAH or work.)
Sigh....not even close. I'll repeat what I said before. I deal with this attitude in family. In the press and on TV I can just laugh at the stupidity. So I'm trying to figure it out. It's not logical.
So back to your regularly scheduled post....Why do some SAHM's think they deserve accolades from society for what they do? As I said before, I don't see this attitude in dads or WM's. It seems to be unique to SAHM's. Why the need for pats on the back from outside their family?
I have stayed home but it never occured to me that anyone other than my family should care about that. Personally, I felt lucky to not have to work. It's a lot easier to get things done without a job. I understand wanting to stay home. I don't get thinking you're somehow better because you do.
There are 13 pages of posts all asking where you see this apart from your DIL?
And as we are talking about your DIL, are you surprised she is defensive of her choices? Your disdain for SAHM's is very obvious here, I can only imagine how obvious your feelings are to her.
I was answering the post... and expressing why I find this attitude baffling. Given that the majority of WM's work to benefit their families, why would anyone ask why a WM bothered having kids. It's illogical. Why make a judgemental statement like that about someone doing what is best for her family? That's the attitude I'm trying to understand.
I made it clear in my first post why I'm asking. This is something I deal with IRL and I don't get it. I see it on TV in the press and, unfortunately, in my own life. I'd like to figure out what drives this kind of self edification and whether or not it's possible to work around it.
I don't see it. I said earlier, as did several other posters, that we don't see this supposed want for recognition from SAHM. I even asked you specifically where you see it and what you see. You didn't answer. It is hard to have a conversation when you pick and choose what you respond to. Give a specific example of a mom asking for special recognition for staying home, and maybe we could give you an answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Sigh....not even close. I'll repeat what I said before. I deal with this attitude in family. In the press and on TV I can just laugh at the stupidity. When it's family, I can't. Understanding what makes them tick might help.
So back to your regularly scheduled post....Why does this attitude exist? What makes them tick?
How so? I assume you are talking about your DIL because you mentioned her earlier, but you never said what she did or said that makes you think she wants recognition. And, being that she's a member of your family, does she want it from you, or does she want it from society? I don't know because you didn't tell us anything. You just come rant about how moms don't need to stay home to work the farm... blah blah blah...
I do not find the attitude to be as intense or pervasive as the OP makes it out to be but I do know what she is talking about.
My best friend is a part time SAHM by choice, she is very financially stable but she WANTS to work, so now that her daughter is 3 she went back to work part time. She is in this SAHM group where the take turns hosting playdates and activities, and she asked me to help out when it was her turn to do one over Xmas break.
Three of the 10 or so women got into this discussion talking about how bad it is for moms to work, even volunteering part time, and how the only mom's who really love their children will do anything to SAH "even go on welfare". Now, I have encountered this type of attitude exactly twice in my entire life so I don't but much stock in it (mostly I was POed for my friend) but if you look around the internet it looks more common.
I do not find the attitude to be as intense or pervasive as the OP makes it out to be but I do know what she is talking about.
My best friend is a part time SAHM by choice, she is very financially stable but she WANTS to work, so now that her daughter is 3 she went back to work part time. She is in this SAHM group where the take turns hosting playdates and activities, and she asked me to help out when it was her turn to do one over Xmas break.
Three of the 10 or so women got into this discussion talking about how bad it is for moms to work, even volunteering part time, and how the only mom's who really love their children will do anything to SAH "even go on welfare". Now, I have encountered this type of attitude exactly twice in my entire life so I don't but much stock in it (mostly I was POed for my friend) but if you look around the internet it looks more common.
If you don't want a debate are we just supposed to agree with you?
You are generalizing greatly here. Do some SAHM's want validation for their choices? Probably. Do some working moms want validation for their choices? Probably. SAHM's make the choice or decision to stay home for many and varied reasons. Working moms make to decision to work for many and varied reasons. It is impossible to lump either group all together.
One point I will take exception with is one you of fond of making, which is that being a SAHM somehow revolves around housework.
No, I'm looking to understand why some SAHM's are this way. It doesn't seem logical to me and it appears that they are tearing down others, solely, for the purpose of building themselves, up from the outside looking in. Their mantra seems self edifying. What I'm really trying to do is figure out how to deal with the ones I'm related to.
In the past, SAH did revolve around housework. That's WHY moms SAH. That and the fact they had little control over when they got pregnant and how many kids they had. Moms never stayed home for the kids, in the past. That concept is new to the last half century. Life didn't used to revolve around the kids. It revolved around the work to be done. Moms (actually wives not just moms) stayed home because someone had to hold down the fort and there was enough work to fill the day from before sun up to after sun down. Today, we live lives of leisure compared to women in the past even with full time jobs. Our foremothers worked their fingers to the bone. I don't know how they did all they did. I guess when you don't have a choice you just do it.
Housework should be part of SAH simply because a SAHM is the one home to do it. Housework was what SAH revolved around for centuries. Now we have modern conveniences to do 90% of that work for us. So, you're right that SAH doesn't revolve around housework as it can't really revolve around something that takes so little time these days given all the time SAHM's have at home. So now SAH, appears, for some, to revolve around the kids. Which is something SAH never did before. Mom didn't have time for that back in my grandmother's day. So I'm puzzled as to why some SAHM's are so convinced that life MUST be that way now...to the point they'll say things like "Why bother having kids if you're just going to put them in daycare?". Given that today's working mom spends more time with her kids than a 1970's SAHM, that attitude doesn't seem logical. It seems self serving.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 01-20-2012 at 03:30 AM..
I do not find the attitude to be as intense or pervasive as the OP makes it out to be but I do know what she is talking about.
My best friend is a part time SAHM by choice, she is very financially stable but she WANTS to work, so now that her daughter is 3 she went back to work part time. She is in this SAHM group where the take turns hosting playdates and activities, and she asked me to help out when it was her turn to do one over Xmas break.
Three of the 10 or so women got into this discussion talking about how bad it is for moms to work, even volunteering part time, and how the only mom's who really love their children will do anything to SAH "even go on welfare". Now, I have encountered this type of attitude exactly twice in my entire life so I don't but much stock in it (mostly I was POed for my friend) but if you look around the internet it looks more common.
I see this a lot because of where I live. When it's people in my neighborhood or I see it on the internet or on TV, I just laugh at the stupidity. Then there are the ones I'm related to... Them I have to deal with. I'd love to understand what makes them tick. To me, it looks like so much self edifying blather. There is no real reason to think that SAH is some better kind of parenthood let alone something society should pay homage to. When I look around, I see parents at home and parents who work who are raising great kids, keeping their homes and have pleasant lives. Given that our kids don't turn out different, this is just a personal choice. Why make so much out of it? Why try to get yourself patted on the back for it? I don't get it.
My gut says that this attitude is either arrogance or justification for SAH since it's no longer needed because of workloads like it was in the past. When I'm not related to them, I just dismiss them. When I am, well, that's another story.
I'm trying to figure out what makes women like the ones in that group you talked about tick. Is it what it appears to be?? Just so much self edifying BS? Justification for not working when working might actually be better for the family (I see a lot of the sacrifice to SAH type here and I want to smack them for makng their kids do without so they can SAH but I'm not related to them so I just shake my head while the secretaries at the school slip food into their kid's back packs so they can eat after school.)
The annoying part is that they are upper middle class families mostly in the group so I think they are just being facetious. I hope anyway.
My friends daughter really likes two of the girls so I don't think she is dropping out. The irony is that two of those women had nannies!! No jobs, no volunteering, but need a nanny. Crazy.
Oh and my friend told me that the witchy one had gotten the nanny as a push present and then a housekeeper for the second push.
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Engineers do varied jobs. I've designed parts, tested them, managed major equipment installations and supervised production just to name a few. Most engineering jobs have something to do with improving processes...finding new ways to do things...improving products.
and expressing why I find this attitude baffling. Given that the majority of WM's work to benefit their families, why would anyone ask why a WM bothered having kids. It's illogical. Why make a judgemental statement like that about someone doing what is best for her family? That's the attitude I'm trying to understand.
