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Even when it comes to electricity and poking some object into an outlet, it's better just to remove the baby from the danger rather than attempt to discipline the baby.
Thirteen pages of people being hugely reactionary, almost entirely due to a definition problem.
Well, that and people not reading the OP carefully. They're not realizing that some children show understanding of cause and effect earlier than others. They're also under the impression that time outs are exclusively for children to "think about what they've done", and ignoring the importance and prevalence of assocation among young toddlers (and even some infants that haven't started to walk yet).
Well, that and people not reading the OP carefully. They're not realizing that some children show understanding of cause and effect earlier than others. They're also under the impression that time outs are exclusively for children to "think about what they've done", and ignoring the importance and prevalence of assocation among young toddlers (and even some infants that haven't started to walk yet).
I absolutely do not think that time out is so they can think about what they have done. It isnt. Its so they associate doing something bad with being taken from play/parents. And I dont care what can be interpreted from the little bit of info I have never ever in my life met a 10 month old who could make the connection between time out and bad behavior. And discipline doesnt equal punishment at this age. Time out is punishment. Discipline at this age equals teaching. Time out is not appropriate. No matter what. And shame if you put an infant/baby in time out. Time out at this age isnt teaching anything its just cruel punishment.
I absolutely do not think that time out is so they can think about what they have done. It isnt. Its so they associate doing something bad with being taken from play/parents. And I dont care what can be interpreted from the little bit of info I have never ever in my life met a 10 month old who could make the connection between time out and bad behavior.
No, it's more that they make the connection between the word "time out" and the place. This is all that's necessary, making time out familiar and everything else falls into place.
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Originally Posted by Dave5150
And discipline doesnt equal punishment at this age. Time out is punishment. Discipline at this age equals teaching. Time out is not appropriate. No matter what. And shame if you put an infant/baby in time out. Time out at this age isnt teaching anything its just cruel punishment.
Ridiculous. You can teach 10 month olds association across the board. I mentioned earlier how, at this age (if not younger, truth be told), my son would crawl rapidly to the bathroom door when he heard a specific ringtone on our cell phone - one we used to remind us when it was time to brush his teeth. He didn't even do this when he heard OTHER ringtones, just that one. If a 10 month old can associate a ringtone with something positive and react accordingly, he can associate the word "time out" with something negative and react accordingly. It's worked for me and mine quite well.
You can also train dogs to look for food when they hear a bell tone. But that doesnt make your son a dog or a dog a human. Completely unrelated training. And a 10 month old shouldnt have be making a connection between timeout and a timeout location.
A 10 month old will learn not to pinch from being told, "oww, hurt" and frowning and/or setting them down for second. Time out is overkill. It's not necessary. Punishments, such as time out should be reserved for deliberate defiance, imnsho. 10 month olds are not deliberately defiant. Redirection and childproofing are much better "discipline" techniques at this age where the baby is simply learning about his or her world via play.
"Cause and effect" is a developmental milestone. Children gain "cause and effect" same as they gain object permanence. I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing here, but to "explore" cause and effect (experiment, perhaps?) is to understand that your action is likely to have a result.
"Appropriately" defined as what? Adhering to what you've read about the average developmental milestones? This is exactly what I'm talking about. You should never ignore your own child's (or someone else's) level of development in the interest of "responding appropriately" to what all 10-month olds are "supposed to be" ready for at that age.
It's interesting that you say parents expecting too much from their children might become abusive. I think you should recognize that as all the more reason to give parenting books/charts less weight on your parenting style. If a book on parenting says their child should start doing ___ by ___ months, but their child isn't ready for it yet, they either understand the book is only referring to AVERAGES, or they too may become abusive trying to get their child to do something they "must" be ready for. After all, all ___ month olds should be doing it.
Time out, pointless? Hardly. My son benefited from it. He walked early too. I know he wasn't yet 12 months when we started him on timeouts, and it did have a noticeable effect almost immediately. Just like with anything else concerning kids, though, you have to know what you're doing and why.
Ummm, no. Child development books go in depth on child development. It's much more then talking about the averages that you might find after glancing at a website that talks about developmental milestones. There are windows of normal and those windows take into account kids who do things earlier and later but are still within the range of normal. No matter how you look at it, there is a huge difference developmentally between a 10 month old and an 18 month old (the earliest age that time outs are recommended for a child).
You can also train dogs to look for food when they hear a bell tone. But that doesnt make your son a dog or a dog a human. Completely unrelated training. And a 10 month old shouldnt have be making a connection between timeout and a timeout location.
No, what's completely unrelated is training a dog (to the subject we're discussing). And why shouldn't a parent teach their child to associate the word "time out" with the time out location? It's a great preparation for later discipline, as I'm assuming you and others here are understanding the term. I'd like an answer to the question I asked earlier. I think it would help to really make something concrete here, if anything could.
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
How do you know when they're NOT "too young" for discipline?
What tells you they're ready? Any guesses would be much appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy
Ummm, no. Child development books go in depth on child development. It's much more then talking about the averages that you might find after glancing at a website that talks about developmental milestones. There are windows of normal and those windows take into account kids who do things earlier and later but are still within the range of normal. No matter how you look at it, there is a huge difference developmentally between a 10 month old and an 18 month old (the earliest age that time outs are recommended for a child).
I can appreciate your apparent interest in child development. Now, if you will be so kind as to actually tell us why a 10 month old is necessarily too young for a one-minute time out, that'd be great.
What tells you they're ready? Any guesses would be much appreciated.
You originally worded the question about how old is old enough for discipline. Never to young, if discipline is being used in the context of teaching not punishment. But you are suggesting punishing a 10 month old, which is inappropriate. And i believe someone else already answered that question. They said punishment is appropriate when the child is being deliberately disobedient. A baby cant be deliberate in that action as they havent learned yet that the action is not ok. They learn that lesson through being taught not punished. You cant punish a child the first time they do something wrong unless they already knew it was wrong. You teach the rules before you enforce them.
You originally worded the question about how old is old enough for discipline. Never to young, if discipline is being used in the context of teaching not punishment. But you are suggesting punishing a 10 month old, which is inappropriate.
Not only inappropriate but counter productive. A 10 month old does not have the concept of misbehavior. What they do they do in the name of exploration. Even knowing that a pinch causes an ow reaction does not mean that they know that one SHOULDN'T cause an ow reaction. The value judgement that pinching and causing that reaction is just not possible for them yet.
If you begin down the punitive route this young, you risk beginning the seeds of hurt, mistrust, resentment and then finally defiance.
Furthermore, it is utterly unnecessary. The will to defy has not been created in or developed in a 10 month old. You can get the message across with demonstration as with gentle touch demonstrations. Or with removing the victim from the situation. There is no more direct route than that. Adding a time out to a 10 month old is nothing short of confusing.
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And i believe someone else already answered that question. They said punishment is appropriate when the child is being deliberately disobedient. A baby cant be deliberate in that action as they havent learned yet that the action is not ok. They learn that lesson through being taught not punished. You cant punish a child the first time they do something wrong unless they already knew it was wrong. You teach the rules before you enforce them.
This is true.
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