Disciplining a 10 month old (playing, travel, father, adults)
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I haven't read through the other posts; I had to re-read the title of this thread as I was browsing. I really thought I read it wrong.
There is no discipline for babies.
Who would even want to do that?
I'm wondering why you'd ever consider disciplining her. I suggest parenting classes, or early childhood development classes at your local college. Wow.
When is the appropriate age to discipline? One year? Three years? 10? 15? Never??? It seems that too many people think discipline is synonomous with punishment. It is not. To discipline is to teach. When my son started pinching and biting at around 10 months old, I told him "be nice" or "be gentle" and modeled that behavior. Now that he's a little older (14 months), I'm a little more firm in my tone. I still say "be gentle", but I also tell him "no hitting" (pinching and biting have been eliminated). If he continues, he gets a timeout, and he definitely understands that hitting mommy or daddy=no more playtime/cuddles/attention.
When he started crawling and was able to get to the Xbox/cable receiver/Tv, I would tell him "those aren't toys", move him away, and give him something appropriate to play with. Guess what happened? He stopped touching the electronics. Yes, it took about 500 times of me saying no and picking him up and redirecting him, but it worked.
I used to teach, and it was evident which kids had no discipline. It will not kill a child to hear the word "no" and learn that they are not running the rodeo.
OP here. Since I'm at work, I really can't go through the pages of posts that my rather innocent question generated, but here's a summation.
Firstly, to me, discipline is defined as training/guidance. I really don't want to get embroiled into arguments over word usage. Once I stated what I meant by 'discipline', that should have been sufficient. I really don't need people exterpolating on what I meant, but it is the interwebs, and that is to be expected.
Second, many parenting guides including "What to Expect in the First Year", "Baby 411" (which by the way have helped immensely the first rodeo) have stated that as early as nine months you plant the seeds of discipline (i.e. establishing a consistent set of "house rules", providing freedoms but also limits, etc.) They do not advocate (and I similarly do not advocate) hitting, frightening, whatever with a young child. They do however advocate setting up, gently, a limit and reward system. Yes, that is "discipline".
I came to the parenting board because reading texts is one thing. I wanted real life advice/suggestions from real people vs. talking heads. I absolutely do not, and have never, used pyschological, emotional, physical or whatever "abuse"/discipline with either of my children. At the same time, I see nothing wrong with, as was stated, beginning to introduce limits and show my daughter that certain behaviours (like hitting and pinching) aren't exactly good and can hurt (i.e. pulling her sister's hair and pinching her on the face). I know the *whys* of her behaviour - she is just doing what babies her age group do. They are finding out about their world and are beginning to understand "cause and effect" and "right and wrong". I am simply trying to show her that some things don't have a positive effect. Is that so unbelievably wrong? If it is, then I'm sorry, that's too bad. It's part of my job as a parent to guide my children in life. I employ re-direct and short answers explaining why pinching isn't good. I was just wondering if there was perhaps a certain tone of voice that I should use -- I don't know -- or maybe I should put her down when she pinches. If anything, what I have taken from the helpful posts is confirmation that I am on the right track -- keep re-directing, praise her when she does drop a wire, make sure we our home is extremely child-proofed, and repitition. I am not a drill sargeant, and unreasonably expecting the 10 month old to comply immediately or fully understand, but I do know that this is the age where I should be showing her that some things aren't merely ok but do it in a gentle manner. I don't think it is a good idea to just shrug off pinching and hitting and then address it when the child is 2. Likewise, I don't think it's good at all to bear down immediately on a hapless child and frighten them and fear you. There is this thing called "reasonableness" and "common ground". There is nothing wrong with behaviour modification if it is done gentlely and with love.
Thirdly, the (in)famous "bib incident." Ok, I posted that late at night when I was stricken with a sinus infection. I'm not expecting mindreading here, but come on..who hasn't had a once in a while "bad mommy" moment? Let's be for real here. Who hasn't engaged in a little tug-o-war every now and then? Or had a "human" moment? Looking back, yes, it was a pointless exercise, but again, it was a 'mortal' moment, and I'll be frank -- I am innately not particularly patient, and I'm very strong willed. The thing is, becoming a parent has kept those traits of mine in check, but it doesn't mean that I don't have a moment when I am not particularly patient. But I am never mean, and I never take ANYTHING out on the kids. That's just how it is. I remember when I was younger, before having kids, I would castigate my own mother for some of the choices she made because I thought she was perfect (very naive). Now that I have my own kids, I appreciate my own mom even more because I realize she was just a mom, and human. I'm digressing here...but anyway. If anyone cares, the child won the "bib war". We've moved on. That's the wonderful thing about kids, they move on, and so do I.
To further clarify the term 'willful'... I do believe that even infants display aspects of their personalities. My oldest, bless her heart, has been very consistent in her personality and has shown her strong will from infancy through now at 5.5. In many ways, both of my girls take after a lot of me. The good thing is I am able to better handle situations because, knowing myself, I know what to expect. I didn't mean 'willful' as being a personality flaw, just a reality.
Fourthly, for all those who have posted advice, and posted links (that post with the discipline for 0 to 3 years is very helpful, thanks!) thank you very much. Like I said in my prior paragraph, it lets me know that I am on the right track here. The age gap between my two kids is great developmentally, even if the number isn't particularly (5 years). I have forgotten some of the finer points of the baby years because for three plus years, I've dealt with a preschooler/school age child. It is an interesting and fascinating thing for me dealing with two children with two different developmental stages and two different personalities (esp. since I myself am an only child), so I can't just translate one parenting style that I use for the oldest one to the youngest one. Again, I came on here simply looking for real world advice, direction, confirmation, whatever.
If you don't agree with me, and lambaste me for "bibgate", then that's ok. I'm not asking people to agree or trying to get acceptance or "parent points". But once you even intimate that I am "possibility abusive", you're way out of line and borderline nutty. I was actually staring at the screen incredulously. If what I have done in my prior post is so horrible or I am such an evil person, please feel free to contact the Texas Department of Family Services. Like I've stated earlier, I don't consider myself the best parent in the world, but I know that I am definitely not the worst. I do the best I can, and it shows. All I can do is try to help my kids navigate the road called life. Most of all, I evolve and learn as a parent. At the same time, I take my responsibility seriously because how my children turn out is directly due to the amount of emotional investment that I put in. It is a given that I give them bountiful love, attention, and praise. At the same time, it is also my job to teach them that certain things aren't good. I am very well aware that I wouldn't employ the same methods on a 10 month old as I would the 5 year old.
Again, thanks to all of the helpful posts and have a good one.
ETA: wanted to mention that we had to address the pinching because she employed it on her father. She wanted to get down on the floor, but he didn't let immediately let her because there were small objects on the floor. She proceeded to put her knees on his chest and pinch him twice. Unfortunately her nails were sharp, so it hurt. The take home message, among other things, that I've gotten from posts here is just to keep it up, telling her 'no pinch', or 'pinching hurts'. I didn't have to do this with the first child because my first really didn't hit/pinch/etc. The youngest is more physical natured (which syncs with her walking early, climbing, and getting into things). If anything, I chuckle at the differences between the two girls
I truly don't understand some of the extremely negative responses to this thread.
Ten month olds respond to distraction, re-direction, and a firm no (although that is recommended to be used sparingly and one can't expect the child to recall from situation to situation what "no" means without tons of repetition) with a whole lot of child-proofing and picking one's battles. The AAP's book of childhood development in the section for 8-12 month olds has several pages on "discipline and guidance" in this age group. They recommend responding immediately and consistently and note that it is ok for the child to cry a few moments after being scolded, and that generally finding ways to reinforce "good behavior" is essential. They refer to guidance/discipline in this age range as laying the groundwork for self-control and discipline at later ages. [I summed up the key points of the text;couldn't find a link to the text on their site - the book is "Caring for Your Baby and Young Child: Birth to Age 5"]
It is also very understandable to me that the OP needed a refresher on what to expect developmentally from her second child. I wonder if the same people jumping on her for asking to be reminded when/how to set limits with a 10 month old would be the same ones bemoaning an out-of-control two year old who never had appropriate guidance/discipline later on. Can we cut each other a little break here? Isn't the whole point of this forum to help each other out with questions like these (and of course to debate parenting strategies to death )?
Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 02-27-2012 at 08:33 AM..
No one can claim to be the best parent in the world, trust me. It's all on the job training.
This guidance is very helpful and reinforces a lot of what was constructively said in this post. Disciplining Your Child
Quote:
How do you keep a 1-year-old from heading toward the DVD player? What should you do when your preschooler throws a fit? How can you get a teenager to respect your authority?
Whatever the age of your child, it's important to be consistent when it comes to discipline. If parents don't stick to the rules and consequences they set up, their kids aren't likely to either.
Here are some ideas about how to vary your approach to discipline to best fit your family.
Ages 0 to 2
Babies and toddlers are naturally curious. So it's wise to eliminate temptations and no-nos — items such as TVs and video equipment, stereos, jewelry, and especially cleaning supplies and medications should be kept well out of reach.
When your crawling baby or roving toddler heads toward an unacceptable or dangerous play object, calmly say "No" and either remove your child from the area or distract him or her with an appropriate activity.
Timeouts can be effective discipline for toddlers. A child who has been hitting, biting, or throwing food, for example, should be told why the behavior is unacceptable and taken to a designated timeout area — a kitchen chair or bottom stair — for a minute or two to calm down (longer timeouts are not effective for toddlers).
It's important to not spank, hit, or slap a child of any age. Babies and toddlers are especially unlikely to be able to make any connection between their behavior and physical punishment. They will only feel the pain of the hit.
And don't forget that kids learn by watching adults, particularly their parents. Make sure your behavior is role-model material. You'll make a much stronger impression by putting your own belongings away rather than just issuing orders to your child to pick up toys while your stuff is left strewn around.
It's nothing about a pain induced physical approach- discipline at this age is a constant reinforcement of what constitutes good behavior vs. bad. I don't agree that you remove the bib is a valid response. If you, the parent, want the bib on, then figure out a repetitive and constant guidance with the infant to reinforce the bib as a good thing. Maybe YOU should put a bib on at the same time to reinforce good behavior!
Eliminating the 'battle' by removing the bib reinforces one thing- Your child doesn't have to wear a bib! To all the folks that say "pick your battles", "just remove the bib"- that is absolutely contradictory to a 'discipline' of reinforcing good behavior. You are in essence doing just the opposite.
The bolded parts from the OP's post are the reason why her post was so off putting to many (myself included). She says that her daughter is doing things to get a reaction, like this 10 month old baby is trying to be bad. That when she's crying from being told "no" she's really thinking, "how dare you!". It's the intent that the OP assigns to her baby's behavior that is making people react to the post in a negative way. That and the power struggle over the bib. The reality is, her daughter's behavior is 100% normal and developmentally appropriate. Asking the OP to read up on child development or take a class is an appropriate response because knowing what is actually going on developmentally will change the way she sees the behavior and put it in perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by riaelise
What are you tips? It's been five years since I've dealt with a baby, so I've actually forgotten what I did with my first daughter. Our second, Anji, isn't so overtly strong willed like her sister; however, she can be pretty determined. Unlike her sister, she learned how to walk early and has succeeded in getting into all sorts of trouble. She likes to get reactions from people..i.e. she pinches someone just to see their reaction. If someone reacts sharply to her (i.e. "No Anji!"), she proceeds to cry, as if to say "you told me no? how dare you!" Another thing she's doing lately is nudging my chin to the side forcefully, almost as if slapping it but without the force. She does this, again, to get a reaction.
Tonight she tore off her bib. Told her no, and put it back on. She worked at it again and tore it off. Put it firmly back on. She was extra willful tonight and kept tearing it off, and I kept putting it back on. I tried re-direct/distraction and that worked momentarily before she was at it again.
I wasn't put off by her comments. She wasn't "what kind of cruel punishment should I attempt to stop this evil baby".
Sounds like usual exasperation with a child. I had those moments too. Had to step back and rethink the approach. Sounds like she has a stubborn little individual! At 10 months my son was a happy-go-lucky guy. Always smiling, always pleasing and not very demanding. He is exactly like that today! He is always smiling, generally happy, and very independent.
My daughter was extremely clingy for Mom- ALWAYS. She would not willingly ride in a stroller. She would cry and cry until Mom picked her up. It took a hell of a long time to discipline her to stay in a car seat and stroller (and no- not by force ). Guess what- my daughter is 11 years old and is STILL clingy.
So the OP has a child that displays stubborn behavior at this moment in time- not saying that will always be the case BUT never the less you should still be enforcing discipline for good behaviors vs. bad. Some kids it doesn't take much effort, others it takes a damn village!
Though I suppose the terms aren't mutually exclusive, I never think of a toddler (which is what this one is) as a baby or infant. But like I said, you discipline whenever they start to show appreciation for cause and effect. Whenever it seems they are doing something because they anticipate a particular result.
A 10 month old is not a toddler. A toddler, by definition, toddles, i.e. walks, which usually happens around 1 year. A 10 month old is usually still crawling, and is very much still a baby.
Threerun.....At ages 0 to 2..it says above..."it is wise to eliminate temptations and no-nos"and that some things should be "kept well out of reach".....I agree with pretty well everything you posted above......except the part at the bottom where you go on to say that "eliminating the bib is contradictory to a discipline" of reinforcing good behaviour"....isn't that exactly what you're doing when you put things up or away where the child can't touch them?.....I tend to agree with the folk that say that you need to "pick your battles"......though personally I've never had the need to "battle" with my 10 month olds.....at their age it's all about discovering their world around them....and they have every right to express all their emotions, desires and feelings....the "battle" part comes in for the adults...who should use their intellect and compassion to figure out a way to calmly correct the child in a way that would make the child respond favorably.
A 10 month old is not a toddler. A toddler, by definition, toddles, i.e. walks, which usually happens around 1 year. A 10 month old is usually still crawling, and is very much still a baby.
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