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Another thing to realise is YES, everyone has hardships in life, what the worst thing one person has gone though is different from another, yes in the grand scheme of things somethings ARE worse than others.
But if this is the worst he has gone through and someone else has gone through legit abuse, they are still as equally worse as the other to each person.
I don't know if I am making any sense, I hope someone gets me.
When people are in situations they view as horrible, they immediate response is to seek out other people, when people such as the OP seek out others its not to have US solve his issues, its NOT to hear other people have it worse, its to seek advice and validation to his feelings.
The worst thing to tell a person who is going though something is that someone else has it worse because to them that is the worst thing to have happen to them, they can't really fathom anything else. It's best to validate their feelings, in this case his parents could have been better and could have taken care of their children a whole lot more and then give him advice on how to get out of his situation.
People learn by getting advice, getting guidance, being pointed in the right direction, shown how to do things in life. We can't just go out there and know how to do things, we have to learn from someone and go from there.
I think we should be more understanding and more willing to lend an ear and some advice and guidance.
I just wanted to add that my parents refused to even help with college expenses. My father told me "You don't need a degree to make babies". While I wish they'd helped, I realize that it was their money to do with as they saw fit and they considered educating a daughter to be a waste of time and money. So I worked a few years and then paid my own way through school. Because I paid the bill, I chose the major. Because I was an adult, I didn't have to listen to my dad when he told me I should turnd down my scholarship to study engineering so a man could have it.
You know what? I don't think my parents were awful because I wasn't raised to think that anyone owed me anything. I was raised to appreciate what I had and to be thankful for whatever anyone else gave me because I understood they didn't owe it to me.
If your parents actually told you that educating a daughter was a waste of time and money, then they were awful parents. What a horrible message to send to a child about their worth.
Any parent who tears down their own child is not a fit parent. Sorry.
If they had merely made it clear that they weren't going to contribute to college, that would be one thing. But to say it was because you weren't worth it because of your gender is terrible.
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I just wanted to add that my parents refused to even help with college expenses. My father told me "You don't need a degree to make babies". While I wish they'd helped, I realize that it was their money to do with as they saw fit and they considered educating a daughter to be a waste of time and money. So I worked a few years and then paid my own way through school. Because I paid the bill, I chose the major. Because I was an adult, I didn't have to listen to my dad when he told me I should turnd down my scholarship to study engineering so a man could have it.
You know what? I don't think my parents were awful because I wasn't raised to think that anyone owed me anything. I was raised to appreciate what I had and to be thankful for whatever anyone else gave me because I understood they didn't owe it to me.
I couldn't find it to appropriately quote it.
Now I can say for certain your parents were wrong.
That's sexist and wrong.
Sure you learned to pay for your own things and that no one owed you anything but the reasoning behind why you learned it is screwed up? Because you were a woman you had to work for those things on your own, oh hell no men and women are equal and your dad is a sexist.
If your parents actually told you that educating a daughter was a waste of time and money, then they were awful parents. What a horrible message to send to a child about their worth.
Any parent who tears down their own child is not a fit parent. Sorry.
If they had merely made it clear that they weren't going to contribute to college, that would be one thing. But to say it was because you weren't worth it because of your gender is terrible.
Not at all. My parents dealt with limited resources all their lives. They allocated where they saw the most benefit. They believed that I would marry and have someone to take care of me and that my brother would do the taking care of. If you only have the money to help one child do you help the one who needs it most or the one who needs it least? I understand where they were coming from. This had nothing to do with my worth. It had to do with their being unable to put all of their kids through school.
What's funny is I finished college and my brother didn't. Maybe handing things to kids makes them take it for granted?
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I just wanted to add that my parents refused to even help with college expenses. My father told me "You don't need a degree to make babies". While I wish they'd helped, I realize that it was their money to do with as they saw fit and they considered educating a daughter to be a waste of time and money. So I worked a few years and then paid my own way through school. Because I paid the bill, I chose the major. Because I was an adult, I didn't have to listen to my dad when he told me I should turnd down my scholarship to study engineering so a man could have it.
You know what? I don't think my parents were awful because I wasn't raised to think that anyone owed me anything. I was raised to appreciate what I had and to be thankful for whatever anyone else gave me because I understood they didn't owe it to me.
I couldn't find it to appropriately quote it.
Now I can say for certain your parents were wrong.
That's sexist and wrong.
Sure you learned to pay for your own things and that no one owed you anything but the reasoning behind why you learned it is screwed up? Because you were a woman you had to work for those things on your own, oh hell no men and women are equal and your dad is a sexist.
My dad grew up during sexist times. In many ways things are still sexist today. It's not unusual for women to have kids and have their husband support them. As far as he was concernec, given a choice between educating a son or a daughter, the son may need ts more. When my father looked at my brohter and I, he saw one child who was likely to be supported by someone else and one that would be expected to do the supporting. He chose to help my brother go to school because he felt my brohter needed it. He chose not to help me because he felt I didn't need it. It was a matter of meeting the need. Life is not fair. And I learned more than my brother here in many ways. Obviously, my sexist parents armed me with what I needed to succeed in linfe and THAT is what matters. Not how much money they spent on my education.
My dad lived in a day where women quit their jobs and stayed home with kids and he was right, you don't need a college degree to do that. Given limited resources, he invested in the child who would be expected to do the most. This had nothing to do with my worth but, rather, my likely role in life. What he didn't know is that things were changing and women can't count on men to support them anymore. Fortunately, I made it through college on my own. My brother, ironically, dropped out. Had my father realized that women would end up supporting ourselves but have fewer opportunties to do so without an education because of their gender, he might have made the opposite choice. He was operating with the information he had. I don't fault him for that.
Both my brother and I ended up being the primary bread winner in our households. I think if my father had realized that was going to happen he would have made a different choice. He didn't realize that was going to happen. When you think about it, in a way, it testifies to what he thought I was worth. He felt that the man I married would support me so he felt I was worth supporting.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 03-14-2012 at 03:03 AM..
My dad grew up during sexist times. In many ways things are still sexist today. It's not unusual for women to have kids and have their husband support them. As far as he was concernec, given a choice between educating a son or a daughter, the son may need ts more. When my father looked at my brohter and I, he saw one child who was likely to be supported by someone else and one that would be expected to do the supporting. He chose to help my brother go to school because he felt my brohter needed it. He chose not to help me because he felt I didn't need it. It was a matter of meeting the need. Life is not fair. And I learned more than my brother here in many ways. Obviously, my sexist parents armed me with what I needed to succeed in linfe and THAT is what matters. Not how much money they spent on my education.
My dad lived in a day where women quit their jobs and stayed home with kids and he was right, you don't need a college degree to do that. Given limited resources, he invested in the child who would be expected to do the most. This had nothing to do with my worth but, rather, my likely role in life. What he didn't know is that things were changing and women can't count on men to support them anymore. Fortunately, I made it through college on my own. My brother, ironically, dropped out. Had my father realized that women would end up supporting but have fewer opportunties to do so without an education because of their gender, he might have made the opposite choice. He was operating with the information he had. I don't fault him for that.
What? Are you 90???
Even my 72 year old grandmother was TOLD to pursue a college education.
Her sister(My aunt) was sent to college too.
BOTH got degrees, both had education and support from their parents to go to school.
My great grandmother who is 92 didn't go to college.
Oh BTW ignorance is no excuse for sexism and chauvinism. Ignorance is no excuse for anything. "He didn't know anything else" is a horrible cop out, because there is ALWAYS two opinions, I bet there were men and women during your time who didn't think the same way as your father, he just didn't want to believe any other way.
What? Are you 90???
Even my 72 year old grandmother was TOLD to pursue a college education.
Her sister(My aunt) was sent to college too.
BOTH got degrees, both had education and support from their parents to go to school.
My great grandmother who is 92 didn't go to college.
Oh BTW ignorance is no excuse for sexism and chauvinism. Ignorance is no excuse for anything. "He didn't know anything else" is a horrible cop out, because there is ALWAYS two opinions, I bet there were men and women during your time who didn't think the same way as your father, he just didn't want to believe any other way.
Txt, we're getting way off topic here, but your grandmother and her sister were fortunate to have parents who valued them getting a college education. It was not the norm in those days. And those that did go were pushed into teaching and nursing for the most part. I'll tell you a "riddle" from when I was in junior high. (And I'm only in my 50's). My friends and I were honor role students, at a good school, and not one of us could solve it! I think the answer will come to you more quickly.
A boy and his father were badly injured in a car accident. They were rushed to the ER. The surgeon on duty took one look at the boy and said, "I can't operate on him. He's my son." How is this possible?
You got the answer, right? We didn't.
BTW, there were women doctors then too of course, maybe 1 or 2 in a med school class, but they almost all went into in obstetrics/gynecology, and faced lots of discrimination. They weren't encouraged by most of their peers.
OK, back to the topic at hand.
Txt, we're getting way off topic here, but your grandmother and her sister were fortunate to have parents who valued them getting a college education. It was not the norm in those days. And those that did go were pushed into teaching and nursing for the most part. I'll tell you a "riddle" from when I was in junior high. (And I'm only in my 50's). My friends and I were honor role students, at a good school, and not one of us could solve it! I think the answer will come to you more quickly.
A boy and his father were badly injured in a car accident. They were rushed to the ER. The surgeon on duty took one look at the boy and said, "I can't operate on him. He's my son." How is this possible?
You got the answer, right? We didn't.
BTW, there were women doctors then too of course, maybe 1 or 2 in a med school class, but they almost all went into in obstetrics/gynecology, and faced lots of discrimination. They weren't encouraged by most of their peers.
OK, back to the topic at hand.
Funny thing is I remember that riddle from All In The Family. I loved it at the time. I was still a kid, but I thought it was very interesting. I remember at the time being stumped for a bit... until I got it. Times have certainly changed.
Another thing to realise is YES, everyone has hardships in life, what the worst thing one person has gone though is different from another, yes in the grand scheme of things somethings ARE worse than others.
But if this is the worst he has gone through and someone else has gone through legit abuse, they are still as equally worse as the other to each person.
I don't know if I am making any sense, I hope someone gets me.
When people are in situations they view as horrible, they immediate response is to seek out other people, when people such as the OP seek out others its not to have US solve his issues, its NOT to hear other people have it worse, its to seek advice and validation to his feelings.
The worst thing to tell a person who is going though something is that someone else has it worse because to them that is the worst thing to have happen to them, they can't really fathom anything else. It's best to validate their feelings, in this case his parents could have been better and could have taken care of their children a whole lot more and then give him advice on how to get out of his situation.
People learn by getting advice, getting guidance, being pointed in the right direction, shown how to do things in life. We can't just go out there and know how to do things, we have to learn from someone and go from there.
I think we should be more understanding and more willing to lend an ear and some advice and guidance.
I think what you are trying to say is that suffering is relative to someone's experience and therefore their frame of mind. Is that right?
It's true that suffering and how someone responds to a certain experience is highly subjective. Even with major traumas, even if several people were in the same trauma (say, Katrina), then each person will respond differently. Some people will be more affected than others, and it's partially correlated to how much emotional support and debriefing they have, but it's also just a matter of people being different.
I have a lot of friends that were abused, for example, and each one has responded differently. The ones that are the most emotionally affected today aren't necessarily the ones that have been through the "worst" abuses, which causes us to have to rethink how we define "best" and "worst". How much someone is affected by something is much more important in terms of giving them emotional support than "how bad what they went through" is. Comparing traumas is pretty useless if your goal is to be supportive. I totally agree.
Here's a good analogy. I used to work in an optical. People would come in asking for glasses and would complain that they can't see without their glasses. They'd be going on about how they're "so blind" without their glasses to me--who's actually blind, as in I use a cane and braille, etc. Would I have been helping them by saying "You're not blind! You can still see--the image is just a little blurry!" No. My job was to help them get the glasses they needed, and direct them to the eye doctor's office. Someone who is sighted is not used to functioning with a visual impairment, so they will feel like they are suffering if their vision is less than 20/20. I am used to being totally blind, so I'm not suffering either. It's all relative.
I posted the cases of much worse parenting in order to answer the OP's question sincerely--that I have heard of much worse parents. I am hoping it will give the OP a new frame of reference that helps them realize their situation is maybe not so bad. A lot of customers, when they would see a totally blind person helping them with their glasses, realized that it's not so bad after all to need glasses. By the same token, I do realize that the OP's feelings are valid and I hope the OP can figure out how to cope with their feelings.
Last edited by nimchimpsky; 03-14-2012 at 08:12 AM..
I have to agree. Of course we all have to let our kids know that we mean business in certain situations. We have to teach them what they need to know to be independent adults. But to be emotionless with your kids is just not healthy. They are your kids. There should be times you are overwhelmed with emotion, good or bad. Sometimes emotion should even guide your decisions related to your kids. To say that a parent was "emotionless" tells me they never showed or never were proud of their child for an accomplishment, never shared in their happiness, or sadness, never felt that "momma bear" come out in defense of their child. How is that possible? How is that ok?
My parents were pretty emotionless, and I do agree that it isn't healthy. My parents are still pretty emotionless now, and it's because they are completely cut off from their own emotions. If I cry in front of them, they will yell at me to stop.
That said, them being emotionless doesn't even compare to the kind of abuse I've been through, at the hands of other people (thank God not my own parents).
Even though my parents are emotionless, they try their best and have never gone out of their way to hurt me. There are times they did, but it wasn't through any malicious intent. For example, it took them 9 years to realize I was legally blind. Since I was adopted at 3, that means I was 12 when they finally realized I was blind. But they really didn't know at the time, and part of it was my eye doctor's fault for not doing a thorough exam not just once, but many times for several years. Was I angry at them? Yes. As a child I didn't understand that parents can mess up too and expected them to know everything and fulfill every need perfectly.
In the end, the important thing is they were trying. Any parent that doesn't go out of their way to intentionally hurt their child (such as by abusing them) is a thousand times better than any parent who does. Of course sometimes the parent will hurt the child unintentionally, but that happens in any relationship. Sometimes you hurt people without realizing it and sometimes they hurt you and don't realize it.
OP, you have to remember your parents are human. They cannot give you want they don't have themselves. With my parents, my parents don't know how to be emotional. So there is no way they can be emotional with me, or help me deal with my own emotions. Your parents may just not know how to "be" certain ways, so you are asking them to do something they literally cannot do. Try to give them a little flexibility and show them the same mercy you would want to be shown if you messed up.
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I think the answer will come to you more quickly.