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Old 04-15-2012, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Jersey
869 posts, read 1,491,198 times
Reputation: 880

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Who is attacking you? And again, this is not a regular school, this is a center for intractable behavior....and I don't think you will find any/many who condone this type of behavior modification.
Regular school or not. This is not acceptable.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,980 posts, read 14,535,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave5150 View Post
Regular school or not. This is not acceptable.
And that is why it is now banned. The story is 10 years old.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Jersey
869 posts, read 1,491,198 times
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The story came up again because of the court case
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:05 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,836,530 times
Reputation: 17473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave5150 View Post
I honestly am so surprised that I am being *attacked* for being upset about this. Whether she knew or not is not my issue. Its that in this day and age where you cant even spank your child the govt allows for "schools" to offer starvation, chemical torture and electro-shock therapy to even exist. How is that ok?
No one is attacking you. This school, however, is a special case in that it takes cases no one else will handle *and* the fact that they use aversives is well advertised. It's a private facility and parents want to have their kids go there because they cannot stand the fact that otherwise the child will be either drugged into a stupor or restrained in a psychiatric facility.

I don't believe that these cases are totally intractable, but both their parents and the other schools they have been enrolled in do believe that.

Also both students and parents have given interviews about the device and their treatment here:

http://www.judgerc.org/progdescmed.html

Last edited by nana053; 04-15-2012 at 04:17 PM..
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:47 PM
 
Location: 89074
500 posts, read 746,607 times
Reputation: 851
The fact that these 'parents' approve of this sort of thing should in no way makes it acceptable. If I did these things in my home I'd be in jail. Just because this is being done at their approval and at a 'school' is no excuse. And sadly, no, it is not banned. This school is open today and the state has yet to close it down or even show a willingness to.

These are not people with 'intractable' behaviors. They are people with disabilities who were never given a chance at treatments that work and don't involve torture. The state should step in, close this place, terminate the parent's rights and get these people, who are in many cases children, some help before all hope is lost. It's a sad day for a society when we allow an institution carry on like this and abuse the disabled because the so-called able people 'approve' of it.
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Old 04-15-2012, 07:39 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,836,530 times
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I agree that this is not acceptable. I do think that the state should close them down. The thing is that NY state actually sends they cannot handle there and pays for them to go. I think that is absolutely nuts!
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:06 PM
 
18,837 posts, read 37,281,021 times
Reputation: 26463
Aversive behavior modification. In our district we had a form that had to be faxed to a special office if you did any one of several "behavior modifications". It is a mild aversive correction, positive reinforcement only goes so far...

I was not an advocate of these methods....in my class....leave your coat on....no music though....you can put away your coat and listen to music. I never had problems....
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Petticoat Junction
934 posts, read 1,934,182 times
Reputation: 1523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave5150 View Post
I honestly am so surprised that I am being *attacked* for being upset about this.
If you thought that was an 'attack,' you are one overly-sensitive individual. I guess no one ever disagrees with you in your world?
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Jersey
869 posts, read 1,491,198 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJBarney View Post
If you thought that was an 'attack,' you are one overly-sensitive individual. I guess no one ever disagrees with you in your world?
Really? Of course people disagree with me. People dont generally disagree with me about shock treatment of children.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,897,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave5150 View Post
Really? Of course people disagree with me. People dont generally disagree with me about shock treatment of children.
I'm working on a longer response with references, but I don't think anyone is saying using physical aversives such as shock with children (or anyone else) is a good thing. As I read the posts on the thread, people were pointing out that the Rotenburg Center is not typical, even for special needs residential facilities, and certainly not the norm for school in general. I can understand you being appalled by the case reported by the media and I believe most people, behaviorist or otherwise, would agree their methods should not be used in the way they are reported to be using them. The Rotenburg Center has a reputation for being very controversial, but it is important to note that they are by no means the norm. They have so many legal problems exactly because they operate outside the realm of accepted state of the art. The APA has issued statement after statement about the ethical use of behavioral interventions, to which the Rotenburg Center does not conform.

Additionally, there is a historical context for using physical aversives, which no matter how appalling we find them using the lens of today's standards of ethical treatment, exist in almost every branch of medicine and psychology. I am not defending the practice, by any stretch of the imagination, particularly because so many advances have been made in positive behavior support programs, which have been documented to help make more permanent positive behavioral changes in treatment resistant patients. However, knowing the history and context of where the use of aversives came from, I can understand though not agree with its use. I would fully support anyone who wants to agitate for change at the Rotenburg Center.

Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 04-16-2012 at 08:13 AM..
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