Next Door Neighbor's Son is Violent (bullying, punish, teaching, spanking)
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I'm really at a loss and not sure what to do. We live on a small cul-de-sac, 6 houses, and it's generally been a great place to live. We have a 7yo son and each next-door neighbor has a 9yo boy. We'll call the neighbor boys "J" and "B". There are other kids around, some older kids on neighboring blocks that come over here too, but J, B and DS have been friends for almost 6 years. Our court is very close-knit and we often feel very lucky to have such great neighbors. Many summer evenings have been spent with the kids all eating dinner outside together while the parents grill, have beers and help play flashlight tag. All-in-all, life is good here.
Except for one child - the one I call "J".
J has always been a little bit of a problem - he can never admit to losing, is always accusing others of cheating, has no impulse control and is constantly getting yelled at by his parents. J's parents spend a lot of time threatening punishment, but rarely is there a lot of follow-through. On more than one occasion they've blamed his age, or made a 'boys-will-be-boys' comment. We all wonder if they realize he's the only one acting that way. It's been a topic of conversation for years on the court, but has also been brought to our attention by many of our friends and family who visit us and witness the dynamic next door. J's dad can often be seen chasing J around the circle, trying to get him inside, usually culminating in a spanking and lots of crying, only for him to be back outside playing 10 minutes later, with no better behavior to show for it. The older he gets, the worse it gets and now J's behavior is getting scary.
The grown-ups usually try to stay out of the bickering about who was first and who cheated - especially now that the boys are older. Often we're not even outside watching anymore. It used to end in name calling, or worst-case, the breaking of a toy that belonged to DS. However, increasingly the disagreements have been culminating in physical aggression by J, generally aimed at DS. DS and J can play without other kids around for hours and be fine, and B and J are in the same class at school and hang out all day together with no problem. We know DS and J bicker a lot when they play alone, but since it's one-on-one and no one comes out the 'victor', they just keep playing and arguing about who did what. Competition is J's way of being. There always has to be a winner. Everything is a race or a competition. And he always has to win or the other person must have cheated... DS doesn't behave that way unless he's with J.
J and DS are usually the first ones outside in the afternoon. But as soon as a third kid, or more, gets out there, all hell breaks loose. When there is more than one kid around to corroborate that J is 'out' or got 2nd place or that he cheated, I think J feels attacked, like they're ganging up on him. And he takes it out on DS because he's the smallest, easiest target. Often, before the aggression, J will come up and tell his dad that the others are picking on him. Many times DH and I have gone to talk to the other kids to ask that they all play nice and we generally hear from them that J is the cause, which we know because we've seen it play out hundreds of times. Once play resumes, it's within about 10 minutes that DS gets injured. It's usually minor, the yanking of a toy out of his hand or a basketball to the gut, and J usually gets forced to apologize and dragged inside. The older boys try to do their best to protect DS, they have always been good to him, but that probably makes J feel even more like everyone is picking on him. He's just never been taught to handle those emotions appropriately, and I get that, but how do I protect my son?! (J is adopted, BTW, whether or not that makes a difference.)
The aggressive moves have been escalating and the final straw was yesterday. J threw a rock at DS's head at close range. I can't stop fuming. According to the boys, it was the same story... J didn't win, they called him out, so J picked up a rock, walked up and threw it at DS's head, hitting him, making him bleed and creating a huge bump. DH and I were sitting in the family room talking when we heard screaming and ran to see what it was. When DS told us that J had thrown a rock at his head, I saw red. But I stayed amazingly calm, especially considering I'm 8 months pregnant, I took a deep breath and announced to J that his behavior was unacceptable while DH knocked on J's door to let his dad know. J started the 'but he ...' blah-blah-blah's until DH sternly said 'I don't care WHAT he did' and J got quiet. J's dad came out as usual, asked J what happened and tried to get him to apologize. I told J, in front of his dad, that he was not welcome to play with DS until I said it was ok - that DS would knock on his door when he was ready to see him again. Of course, J reacted negatively to his dad and there was some chasing and spanking, but we had already gone in to attend to DS's head.
I don't know what to do now. I'm tired of it and don't want DS to see J anymore. J's parents are obviously incapable of handling this, but it's not my place to tell them how to raise their children either. I'm pretty sure that approaching them to talk about it would create hard feelings and change a lot around here. We're friends... and in very close quarters. They're just in denial and I don't think I'm in the position to change that - as much as I would like to. Am I supposed to punish DS and tell him he can't go out to play with his friends because of J? I can't keep J from playing outside. Or do I watch for J to come out and then pull DS in? He doesn't really want to see J right now anyway, but I think that will change within the week. It's coming up on summer - there's just no way to keep them apart without starting a feud. And it doesn't matter whether parents are out watching or not. J's parents are oblivious to what's really happening and J has no problem doing things like this right in front of them. Or us. In fact he get's a little gleam in his eye when he does bad things in front of grown-ups. DH gave DS permission to hit J back next time, once, real hard and then walk away and tell us, to show him that he's not an easy target, but I'm not sure DS has it in him. He's never hit anyone in his life, except when he's play fighting with daddy.
My worst fear is that next time it will be something worse... a bigger rock, a baseball bat... it makes me cry just thinking about it.
Sounds like a tough situation. Sounds like this kid is being hit by his dad and it's making him more aggressive. Also dad is hitting him outside in front of everyone. Humilation is probably making him an angrier person. He's 9, not a 2yo. Sounds like you can't change their family mess. I personally would go up to J and threaten that you will call the police if he EVER touches your child again. Scare the heck out of him. Does your son have school friends he can invite over? Are there other opportunities to play and socialize with other kids? What are your summer plans? Hopefully he will have places to go away from the cul-de sac. Good luck.
There should be a figure in the life of this obviously high-spirited boy that he would respect and who can break his bad habits. - Sort of a boy whisperer. His father can't be one, obviously. This boy desperately needs an authority figure, who could talk to him, then to your son, then to both J and your son, then to all the kids, teaching them to identify and confront bullying, because that's what J is doing. There are not many volunteers to be whisperers in our NIMBY world. But it doesn't have to be some tough guy, neither. A slight woman with a strong character and a sense of justice would do.
Also, it sounds that there is a slight chance of some disorder in this boy, (for example, my son, too, has hard time with a perceived play injustice, tends to blame others and keeps grudges for a long time - but he is high functioning autistic, and this problem is known and both the school and we the parents keep working on it), then he needs consistency and reiteration in explaining to him the rules of the play. The whisperer has to take on this responsibility, too.
If no one is willing to take on this role, then as hard as you try, the idyllic neighborhood ambiance will not uphold for too long.
PS: for your son's sake, for the future Js in his life, teach him boxing, karate, judo, to hit from the ground, to nip the future bullies in the bud.
You say this boy who has been trouble for some time now threw a rock at close range at your son resulting in serious injury and then say you dont know what to do? Seriously?
Tell his parents what happened and that they are lucky you didnt call the police and their son is not to come near your son again.
PS: for your son's sake, for the future Js in his life, teach him boxing, karate, judo, to hit from the ground, to nip the future bullies in the bud.
I agree with this... give him those kind of classes so that your son can have the confidence to defend himself. Those kind of classes are meant to teach kids to stand up to bullies.
There isn't really anything you can do about J, especially since his parents are just clueless... but unfortunately this lends to you and the other parents having to supervise/watch your kids playing again, despite the kids' older ages. Discourage your son from playing with J alone... and in groups, tell DS *never* to argue with J. Just walk away, go back into playing with the other kids, whatever... before it escalates into something more serious. Its just not productive for DS to argue with J at all, especially because J lacks the coping skills to simply move on. This will help DS learn to pick his own battles as well.
My middle son's best friend was a lot like "J". We were neighbors, and the adults got along very well too. But, "T", was a competitive boy, and could not handle losing, waiting his turn, or not getting the prime seat in my minivan (the one next to the sliding door). It honestly bugged me more than my son. I couldn't stand to see him always back down, but DS treasured his friend, faults and all.
Because his parents were well aware of "T"'s tendencies, they wouldn't bat an eye if he came home crying. Because we never tried to break off the friendship between these boys, they are still good friends, even in college, and living many states apart. Likewise, his parents and us are still are close.
If your son truly likes this boy, find a way to work it out. Kids do grow out of the majority of this type of sore loser stuff. I think I would just make a rule, if there is any fighting, the kids must go home for a cooling off period. I don't think the boy's father is doing any good with the spanking. I don't see how that teaches a child to use words instead of hands.
You say this boy who has been trouble for some time now threw a rock at close range at your son resulting in serious injury and then say you dont know what to do? Seriously?
Tell his parents what happened and that they are lucky you didnt call the police and their son is not to come near your son again.
Exactly! Did your son go to the hospital to be checked out? Did you incur any medical bills through that? How big was the rock?
If you think his parents are not helping the situation you can place a call to social services.
I'm really at a loss and not sure what to do. We live on a small cul-de-sac, 6 houses, and it's generally been a great place to live. We have a 7yo son and each next-door neighbor has a 9yo boy. We'll call the neighbor boys "J" and "B". There are other kids around, some older kids on neighboring blocks that come over here too, but J, B and DS have been friends for almost 6 years. Our court is very close-knit and we often feel very lucky to have such great neighbors. Many summer evenings have been spent with the kids all eating dinner outside together while the parents grill, have beers and help play flashlight tag. All-in-all, life is good here.
Except for one child - the one I call "J".
J has always been a little bit of a problem - he can never admit to losing, is always accusing others of cheating, has no impulse control and is constantly getting yelled at by his parents. J's parents spend a lot of time threatening punishment, but rarely is there a lot of follow-through. On more than one occasion they've blamed his age, or made a 'boys-will-be-boys' comment. We all wonder if they realize he's the only one acting that way. It's been a topic of conversation for years on the court, but has also been brought to our attention by many of our friends and family who visit us and witness the dynamic next door. J's dad can often be seen chasing J around the circle, trying to get him inside, usually culminating in a spanking and lots of crying, only for him to be back outside playing 10 minutes later, with no better behavior to show for it. The older he gets, the worse it gets and now J's behavior is getting scary.
The grown-ups usually try to stay out of the bickering about who was first and who cheated - especially now that the boys are older. Often we're not even outside watching anymore. It used to end in name calling, or worst-case, the breaking of a toy that belonged to DS. However, increasingly the disagreements have been culminating in physical aggression by J, generally aimed at DS. DS and J can play without other kids around for hours and be fine, and B and J are in the same class at school and hang out all day together with no problem. We know DS and J bicker a lot when they play alone, but since it's one-on-one and no one comes out the 'victor', they just keep playing and arguing about who did what. Competition is J's way of being. There always has to be a winner. Everything is a race or a competition. And he always has to win or the other person must have cheated... DS doesn't behave that way unless he's with J.
J and DS are usually the first ones outside in the afternoon. But as soon as a third kid, or more, gets out there, all hell breaks loose. When there is more than one kid around to corroborate that J is 'out' or got 2nd place or that he cheated, I think J feels attacked, like they're ganging up on him. And he takes it out on DS because he's the smallest, easiest target. Often, before the aggression, J will come up and tell his dad that the others are picking on him. Many times DH and I have gone to talk to the other kids to ask that they all play nice and we generally hear from them that J is the cause, which we know because we've seen it play out hundreds of times. Once play resumes, it's within about 10 minutes that DS gets injured. It's usually minor, the yanking of a toy out of his hand or a basketball to the gut, and J usually gets forced to apologize and dragged inside. The older boys try to do their best to protect DS, they have always been good to him, but that probably makes J feel even more like everyone is picking on him. He's just never been taught to handle those emotions appropriately, and I get that, but how do I protect my son?! (J is adopted, BTW, whether or not that makes a difference.)
The aggressive moves have been escalating and the final straw was yesterday. J threw a rock at DS's head at close range. I can't stop fuming. According to the boys, it was the same story... J didn't win, they called him out, so J picked up a rock, walked up and threw it at DS's head, hitting him, making him bleed and creating a huge bump. DH and I were sitting in the family room talking when we heard screaming and ran to see what it was. When DS told us that J had thrown a rock at his head, I saw red. But I stayed amazingly calm, especially considering I'm 8 months pregnant, I took a deep breath and announced to J that his behavior was unacceptable while DH knocked on J's door to let his dad know. J started the 'but he ...' blah-blah-blah's until DH sternly said 'I don't care WHAT he did' and J got quiet. J's dad came out as usual, asked J what happened and tried to get him to apologize. I told J, in front of his dad, that he was not welcome to play with DS until I said it was ok - that DS would knock on his door when he was ready to see him again. Of course, J reacted negatively to his dad and there was some chasing and spanking, but we had already gone in to attend to DS's head.
I don't know what to do now. I'm tired of it and don't want DS to see J anymore. J's parents are obviously incapable of handling this, but it's not my place to tell them how to raise their children either. I'm pretty sure that approaching them to talk about it would create hard feelings and change a lot around here. We're friends... and in very close quarters. They're just in denial and I don't think I'm in the position to change that - as much as I would like to. Am I supposed to punish DS and tell him he can't go out to play with his friends because of J? I can't keep J from playing outside. Or do I watch for J to come out and then pull DS in? He doesn't really want to see J right now anyway, but I think that will change within the week. It's coming up on summer - there's just no way to keep them apart without starting a feud. And it doesn't matter whether parents are out watching or not. J's parents are oblivious to what's really happening and J has no problem doing things like this right in front of them. Or us. In fact he get's a little gleam in his eye when he does bad things in front of grown-ups. DH gave DS permission to hit J back next time, once, real hard and then walk away and tell us, to show him that he's not an easy target, but I'm not sure DS has it in him. He's never hit anyone in his life, except when he's play fighting with daddy.
My worst fear is that next time it will be something worse... a bigger rock, a baseball bat... it makes me cry just thinking about it.
You can't control anyone elses' kid but you can control your own.
Tell your son he can play on your property and no where else, and that J is not allowed over.
Hopefully J's parents will ask you why, and you can tell them your concerns.
I know you are going to say "my kid should be able to play where/with whom he likes and this cul de sac has always been safe" - well things change, your Mayberry has now changed. If you want to keep your kid safe you need to ban J from coming anywhere near him.
Futher, this sort of thing ALWAYS happens when there's 3 kids. Two will always gang up on the third. It's just the way it is.
My middle son's best friend was a lot like "J". We were neighbors, and the adults got along very well too. But, "T", was a competitive boy, and could not handle losing, waiting his turn, or not getting the prime seat in my minivan (the one next to the sliding door). It honestly bugged me more than my son. I couldn't stand to see him always back down, but DS treasured his friend, faults and all.
Because his parents were well aware of "T"'s tendencies, they wouldn't bat an eye if he came home crying. Because we never tried to break off the friendship between these boys, they are still good friends, even in college, and living many states apart. Likewise, his parents and us are still are close.
If your son truly likes this boy, find a way to work it out. Kids do grow out of the majority of this type of sore loser stuff. I think I would just make a rule, if there is any fighting, the kids must go home for a cooling off period. I don't think the boy's father is doing any good with the spanking. I don't see how that teaches a child to use words instead of hands.
I could see this if there was not escalating violence involved. Throwing a rock at someone's head at close range causing bleeding goes way beyond sore loser, tantrum throwing behavior.
I got the impression from the OP that this boy's anger is increasing in intensity with age. His parents' handling of the situation is not providing direction to channel anger, they are just showing him that when mad, lash out. That doesn't bode well for him finding ways to deal with his anger properly. It's a safety issue now. If this boy gets away with rock throwing, who knows what's next?
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