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This thread is not headed in a good direction. It proves why discipline is a private matter, because other's will give their unwanted input by criticizing others, and think they're helping (even if they're not, or it makes things worse). I may disagree with other's parenting, but I cannot raise another person's kids and assume the results I've had or have worked on another kid will ncessarily work for them.
This thread is not headed in a good direction. It proves why discipline is a private matter, because other's will give their unwanted input by criticizing others, and think they're helping (even if they're not, or it makes things worse). I may disagree with other's parenting, but I cannot raise another person's kids and assume the results I've had or have worked on another kid will ncessarily work for them.
Advice from one adult to another cannot possibly make things worse on its own. Even bad advice must be heeded or reacted to in a hostile way for it to do any harm. It falls on the parent to discern the difference between good advice and bad, so they'll know what to heed (and yes, I believe not heeding good advice is characteristic of a bad parent no more/no less than heeding the bad). As for the implied intolerance for advice, this would only suggest that parents who spank are simply not patient people and/or in control of their emotions. Socially competent, disciplined people can hear other people talk without pulling their hair out.
Advice from one adult to another cannot possibly make things worse on its own. Even bad advice must be heeded or reacted to in a hostile way for it to do any harm. It falls on the parent to discern the difference between good advice and bad, so they'll know what to heed (and yes, I believe not heeding good advice is characteristic of a bad parent no more/no less than heeding the bad). As for the implied intolerance for advice, this would only suggest that parents who spank are simply not patient people and/or in control of their emotions. Socially competent, disciplined people can hear other people talk without pulling their hair out.
Vic, I think you made your stance clear.
First of all "good" advice is going to be subjective, because everyone has their own opinion/preferences. What I or other may think is "good" may not be helpful to the parent, despite what you may think. It might backfire, depending on their child. Secondly, I am speaking of all parenting techniques and any parent giving advice to another regardless of their method of discipline--it is not limited to spanking: You could have two parents who don't spank who still do not welcome advice from another.
I'm not certain why you're intent on convincing others why your point always has to be right when it's clear everyone won't always agree with each other, nor are they forced to. BTW, lumping parents into "good/bad" categories won't be received well. While there are certainly people who aren't interested in parenting, and others who are clueless, most parents are trying to do the best job they know how. You won't get favor by assuming one's way is superior, or by acting condescending to another parent's methods, even if their kids are otherwise still happy, healthy, respectful and well-adjusted.
First of all "good" advice is going to be subjective, because everyone has their own opinion/preferences. What I or other may think is "good" may not be helpful to the parent, despite what you may think. It might backfire, depending on their child. Secondly, I am speaking of all parenting techniques and any parent giving advice to another regardless of their method of discipline--it is not limited to spanking: You could have two parents who don't spank who still do not welcome advice from another.
I'm not certain why you're intent on convincing others why your point always has to be right when it's clear everyone won't always agree with each other, nor are they forced to. BTW, lumping parents into "good/bad" categories won't be received well. While there are certainly people who aren't interested in parenting, and others who are clueless, most parents are trying to do the best job they know how. You won't get favor by assuming one's way is superior, or by acting condescending to another parent's methods, even if their kids are otherwise still happy, healthy, respectful and well-adjusted.
It seemed as if you were saying that because the input is unwanted, it's "not helping" or "making things worse". All that talk of how discipline should be a private matter because someone might be annoyed at the advice they're offered, that the thread's going in a bad "direction" due to criticism. That's not true. Yes, the value of advice always depends on factors specific to the parent you're offering it to. But that'd just mean that so-called "good advice" that wouldn't work for a particular child is actually bad advice. However, though you may not like me repeating myself, I'm far from convinced that there exists a child that absolutely must be spanked to become disciplined, respectful, etc... especially if we mean to say this trait (for lack of a better word) is already present at birth. And I will continue to point out how very little rationale or evidence exists to support the thought, "condescending" or no.
As for calling some parents "good" and others "bad", that's not exactly what I was doing here. "Characteristic of" simply means it's what you'd expect a bad parent to do. We all practice both bad and good parenting from time to time. Stubbornly refusing to heed good advice (in the event that it is good) is bad parenting. Obviously, our aim should be to make the vast majority of our parenting... well, good
It seemed as if you were saying that because the input is unwanted, it's "not helping" or "making things worse". All that talk of how discipline should be a private matter because someone might be annoyed at the advice they're offered, that the thread's going in a bad "direction" due to criticism. That's not true. Yes, the value of advice always depends on factors specific to the parent you're offering it to. But that'd just mean that so-called "good advice" that wouldn't work for a particular child is actually bad advice. However, though you may not like me repeating myself, I'm far from convinced that there exists a child that absolutely must be spanked to become disciplined, respectful, etc... especially if we mean to say this trait (for lack of a better word) is already present at birth. And I will continue to point out how very little rationale or evidence exists to support the thought, "condescending" or no.
As for calling some parents "good" and others "bad", that's not exactly what I was doing here. "Characteristic of" simply means it's what you'd expect a bad parent to do. We all practice both bad and good parenting from time to time. Stubbornly refusing to heed good advice (in the event that it is good) is bad parenting. Obviously, our aim should be to make the vast majority of our parenting... well, good
The advice is unwanted because many parents don't want to be told what to do. And they certainly don't want an outsider telling them how to raise their child(ren). However, if a parent is in a situation to be open to advice, and another parent suggest "time outs" to them, yer that parent's child doesn't take it seriously, it would be bad advice, because it wasn't effective for them.
And no, I was saying this thread isn't headed in a good direction because some people insist on a black/white approach to parenting and are critical of others who use methods they disagree with and assume they are "wrong", when these people know their own kids best. I don't expect everyone to use the same methods, nor do I assume one method is "right" or "wrong", just because I have a personal issue with it. It isn't my business nor responsibility to get involved in another's affairs. You have a right to think what you will, but people will do whatever is best for them, because it's their children, not yours.
It isn't my business nor responsibility to get involved in another's affairs.
This is merely an opinion, the legitimacy of which depends on whether corporal punishment is more harmful/risky than helpful/necessary, in and of itself. Studies seem to indicate that it is. Heightened aggression, lower IQ, and depression being more prevalent most certainly is everyone else's business, and it's our responsibility to do what we can to prevent it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexWest
You have a right to think what you will, but people will do whatever is best for them, because it's their children, not yours.
People will do what they think is best for them and their children, yes, and I will seek to change what they do by changing how they think. So, in conclusion, please do not imply that people should not offer advice (even unwanted advice) just because the subject of one's parenting is somehow sacred and exempt. I can think of no subject more important on which we should freely offer and hear advice
This is merely an opinion, the legitimacy of which depends on whether corporal punishment is more harmful/risky than helpful/necessary, in and of itself. Studies seem to indicate that it is. Heightened aggression, lower IQ, and depression being more prevalent most certainly is everyone else's business, and it's our responsibility to do what we can to prevent it.
People will do what they think is best for them and their children, yes, and I will seek to change what they do by changing how they think. So, in conclusion, please do not imply that people should not offer advice (even unwanted advice) just because the subject of one's parenting is somehow sacred and exempt. I can think of no subject more important on which we should freely offer and hear advice
I'm not talking Corporal Punishment. In general, people's way of disciplining is their business, not anyone else. Try talking to anyone with kids. Many will not want anyone else's .02, and will say what I said about their business. You wouldn't want people putting their nose into yours, either.
You don't know these people, or their situation, you are speculating your opinion on corporal punishment on everyone. You're not trying to help, but trying to push another agenda. You can't change anyone else mine more than than anyone else would try to change your mind. We all know you have no control over anyone but yourself. Soon or later, you'll have to get over it.
So I was in the mall over Memorial Day weekend and this kid starts going crazy. When his mother tells him to stop, he grabs a bottle of perfume, and smashes it on the floor. And she did nothing about it. The kid just walked off looking fumed.
Here's my question: Is it socially acceptable to give your kid the whooping of a lifetime in light of such behavior? Or is society so PC that any physical discipline (especially in public) is frowned upon?
I spanked my son twice in his life for tantrums. He never came close to being anything like that perfume kid. Maybe it was the spankings, maybe it was the other forms of discipline I used.....maybe both. He wasn't damaged, he never equated the spankings to mean it was OK to hit someone you love (I saw that in another thread and laughed) but, even as an adult, he is very hesitant to anger me.
My parents have spanked him a couple of times for tantrums. I had no problem with it. He was in their care when it happened.
My uncles and aunts were free to spank me if I was in their care. And a couple have.
My mom was always griping about something. I didn't respect her authority much. It lost its effect. My dad might have spanked me 2 or 3 times growing up. But he was really laid back, didn't complain much, a man of few words. So, when he got angry, he had my attention. I didn't jack with my dad. But it wasn't a fear for my life. It was respect for my father and for authority. You'll hear it a lot among people my age. "I was afraid of my dad.", "I didn't mess with mom.". Grown men, 6 feet tall, successful, take-charge say "Yes ma'am." when mom tells him to watch his mouth. Among the people I have met, most will say it is about respect, not fear.
I went to parochial school where Sister Ann would slap you if you were out of line. I think she over did it. I don't agree with that.
I came from a time where spanking was a part of growing up. I think that time produced more respectful and responsible human beings. I'm OK with it in some situations. It's not my first choice, but I'm not opposed to it. The same could probably be accomplished without the belt, sure. I've seen many cases where just talking and reasoning hasn't worked. I just don't think spanking is as evil as some people make it out to be. And any damage I had came from words and the lack thereof, not from any single one of the spankings I received.
In general, people's way of disciplining is their business, not anyone else. Try talking to anyone with kids. Many will not want anyone else's .02, and will say what I said about their business. You wouldn't want people putting their nose into yours, either.
I wonder why anyone who does not want other peoples' opinions would come to a forum.
I capitalized it because it was something specific thwash other poster was referring to. It may not have to be, but I wasn't that concerned about grammar this morning.
I wonder why anyone who does not want other peoples' opinions would come to a forum.
People can ask for advice on a forum if they want. However, in this thread people were giving their experiences of spankings or whoopings, and whether or not they thought it was acceptable; they were not asking for personal parenting advice.
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