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I'm glad you've found some useful advice. I agree with stopping the eggshell freeway. It's of no use.
Forget the calculator drama, sharing shouldn't lead your oldest into deep depression, she is using it as an excuse for failure to study and poor sleeping habits. Yes, you could've ran all over town trying to replace that calculator for the four sleeping hours to avoid a scream fest but why be that afraid of your child, your the mom, she's the kid, you made the right choice. A child that would care about that issue would have found something wrong with the replacement as well because she needed an excuse for avoiding her studies.
So, it's a non issue really.
Ignore the drama, don't try to avoid it with having the validating self worth talk. I'm sure you've done that, she can tell you walk on eggshells and she's working it. Be frank, I've tried avoiding your outbursts by changing my behavior. It doesn't work well for me or for you. If you really need to take me on then so be it, lets go for it.
Set your boundaries and stick to them. Say, you know I love you but I don't love your behavior and it's not going to stick around anymore.
No excuses, just show me the money. I.E. You want a good test score, study, take the test and get one. You want clothes, phones, computers, do what I do and kiss the bosses butt to get them, ie, I'm the boss.
Do your job as my child and learn how to survive in this world while I'm providing you with the shelter to fail.
I tell my kids that I'm giving you room, board and food for free so that you can concentrate on making your own dreams come true. You can learn how to survive in this world without me in a safe environment. But, it's not a luxury hotel, don't take advantage of your time, it ends when your an adult, don't waist it or you'll have no one to blame but yourself. If you stay here you're either in college or working and paying some rent.
I'm Korean though, so it may sound harsh to some on here but most Asian parents do not feel the need to instill self worth. You are born to take that journey yourself. You get the party when the accomplishment is on the table, not before that. We grew up being supportive of our sibs who did well and had dinner parties, whole family included, that you HAD to attend to congratulate your siblings on a job well done. And the key word is DONE.
Not the million attempts before hand. That just made the reward even sweeter. The victory greater.
I do this every week. Try it, it helps you stay focused as a mom.
Share some quotes of the day that relate, here are a few on self esteem:
"The tragedy is that so many people look for self-confidence and self-respect everywhere except within themselves, and so they fail in their search."
Dr Nathaniel Branden
"In my day, we didn't have self-esteem, we had self-respect, and no more of it than we had earned."
Jane Haddam
"It's surprising how many persons go through life without ever recognizing that their feelings toward other people are largely determined by their feelings toward themselves, and if you're not comfortable within yourself, you can't be comfortable with others."
Sidney J. Harris
"Every individual has a place to fill in the world, and is important, in some respect, whether he chooses to be so or not."
Nathaniel Hawthorne
I know it's scary but being a parent isn't all about gaining your daughters approval as a good mom, it's about raising a human being that will respect and contribute to society. If you get the other then great, if you don't, it's not a requirement.
I think this style would work well for some kids but it could easily backfire for kids who are more sensitive and be detrimental. There's nothing wrong with validating someones feelings. It can be very helpful. You say that you're sure Ivory has already done that anyway. I think it's pretty clear that she hasn't.
Being raised by asian parents myself, I know what you are talking about. There was encouragement, support, etc, but no adulation until an actual accomplishment was at hand. A real accomplishment. And I didn't feel any less loved because of this way of parenting.
Thanks No wonder I agreed with your posts.
I never felt less loved either, it was almost a relief at times to have clear expectations.
Behavioral problems might just mean you work harder but the expectations are still there. You fix the problem then back to the grind.
I really notice a difference in expectations and the meaning of parental involvement between cultures. My mom would of had no problem telling me I wasn't doing as well as my sister. She wouldn't hesitate to say, "why aren't you like your sister?" "she works hard and gets good grades."
She would want it to sink in that they were proud of my sisters accomplishments. They would never hide my siblings good grades, they would tell me and everybody. The spot light would could be seen for miles. As a matter of fact she might even say, "thank goodness we have her sister, she does really well" and I could be standing right there next to my mom while she said it to a stranger.
(I'm not encouraging this, but only showing the differences on how parents go about protecting their kids from sibs that do better than another)
If I was jealous of her that was only my problem, and they would see her grades as an encouragement to me. "look what your sister did" lol "We will be happy if you do the same as your sister please."
Me, "why does my sister have a radio?" parents, "she got good grades."
Where's mine? "you don't have good grades, why do you need a radio?"
You're helping me with the dishes while your sister does her studies and listens to her radio.
I imagine some of you are thinking, OMG, child abuse!! But peoples views of abuse differ greatly and my parents would see some of the others lenience on here with their kids as abuse and neglect as well. Spoiled beyond their control and allowing them to fail as adults would not be seen as a good thing. They would blame themselves later when the kids had no respect for the parents.
Maybe Ivory just see's a different approach to parenting than some others so she is looking for advice that matches her own for this issue. That is fine, IMO. There are a lot of approaches to this problem on here. If my advice doesn't cut it then I'm ok with that, I'm not on here trying to save Ivory actually, I just like to post. I wouldn't find it a waist of my advice or think Ivory used up my precious time. I choose to come on here and I like sharing my thoughts, regardless if someone uses it or shares my opinions or idea.
My parents didn't do the comparison thing with my brother and me.
They certainly didn't do it in front of other people.
But they would say, "Hey, look! She did that and look what happened. You could have that, too, if you worked really hard!"
So kind of using one as a rabbit for another, but not really putting anyone down.
My mother did tend to compare us to other children at school or in sports, and that kind of cheezed me off. But I wasn't scarred by it or anything.
I personally would avoid the comparisons, but I am not going to pander, either. If someone gets something for accomplishing something, then I'll be happy to explain to the other kid why they didn't get one, too.
Thanks No wonder I agreed with your posts.
I never felt less loved either, it was almost a relief at times to have clear expectations.
Behavioral problems might just mean you work harder but the expectations are still there. You fix the problem then back to the grind.
I really notice a difference in expectations and the meaning of parental involvement between cultures. My mom would of had no problem telling me I wasn't doing as well as my sister. She wouldn't hesitate to say, "why aren't you like your sister?" "she works hard and gets good grades."
She would want it to sink in that they were proud of my sisters accomplishments. They would never hide my siblings good grades, they would tell me and everybody. The spot light would could be seen for miles. As a matter of fact she might even say, "thank goodness we have her sister, she does really well" and I could be standing right there next to my mom while she said it to a stranger.
(I'm not encouraging this, but only showing the differences on how parents go about protecting their kids from sibs that do better than another)
If I was jealous of her that was only my problem, and they would see her grades as an encouragement to me. "look what your sister did" lol "We will be happy if you do the same as your sister please."
Me, "why does my sister have a radio?" parents, "she got good grades."
Where's mine? "you don't have good grades, why do you need a radio?"
You're helping me with the dishes while your sister does her studies and listens to her radio.
I imagine some of you are thinking, OMG, child abuse!! But peoples views of abuse differ greatly and my parents would see some of the others lenience on here with their kids as abuse and neglect as well. Spoiled beyond their control and allowing them to fail as adults would not be seen as a good thing. They would blame themselves later when the kids had no respect for the parents.
Maybe Ivory just see's a different approach to parenting than some others so she is looking for advice that matches her own for this issue. That is fine, IMO. There are a lot of approaches to this problem on here. If my advice doesn't cut it then I'm ok with that, I'm not on here trying to save Ivory actually, I just like to post. I wouldn't find it a waist of my advice or think Ivory used up my precious time. I choose to come on here and I like sharing my thoughts, regardless if someone uses it or shares my opinions or idea.
It seems like Ivory is already doing this and it is not working. I think a lot of us can see that, and are saying she should try something different. What works for some kids might make other kids feel awful about themselves. I'm far from a "ooooh honey boo you are such a perfect angel" type of parent, but I also try to take my kids' feelings into consideration. I would hate if someone said to me, as an adult, "Oh, your sister makes 200k per year, you could do that too if you just tried harder!", or "Yeah, your brother has his doctorate degree. Don't you wish you were as educated as him?", so I wouldn't say those things to my kids.
BTW- the word waist means the stomach area, as my "my waist is 28 inches". I think you're looking for the word WASTE
I think this style would work well for some kids but it could easily backfire for kids who are more sensitive and be detrimental. There's nothing wrong with validating someones feelings. It can be very helpful. You say that you're sure Ivory has already done that anyway. I think it's pretty clear that she hasn't.
Well, we differ here, thats all. And it's ok to do so. She'll use what she feels comfortable with I'm sure.
We don't detail parent as much in my family. Parents don't expect less from a child with an attitude problem. They expect more.
What I mean with Ivory is she clearly spends more time on this child, she bends herself to accommodate her different than she does with her sibling because she cares, not because she doesn't.
This will cause resentment. It's not healthy, nor a good example of parenting to me personally. The children in my family do the bending. They learn how to work with what they've got, and are expected to do so.
If I brought this to my moms attention as my problem with my kids she would first say this: Why do you bend your will for the other daughter? She will feel that and you should expect more from her like the other. If she doesn't do what you ask then let the chips fall. Don't catch them for her, she won't learn anything.
Some of you on here don't give the older daughter any credit with this, IMO. You want Ivory to spell it out slowly for her, over and over again to build her up. Give her reward first so she can see what to reach for later. This doesn't work for many people. They aren't that strong.
That is what I think she has already done with her actions. I think she needs to stop that now and expect her daughter to have received the help and apply the help she's already given her, start putting effort into her life. If she doesn't than she loses her rewards until she does. She might never chose to do it, but it is a good lesson for how life really is. She needs to see the low to want to avoid it, IMO.
Some people are sensitive and will always be. That is how their life will always go. They will always be unhappy to a certain extent and the difference is, I don't think Ivory has the power to change that part. If parents had this power we wouldn't be on so many anti depressants because most parents want their children to be happy and to do well in life.
The words mean nothing, the action means everything. Ivory obviously spends most of her time worrying about this child. I don't understand why people don't see this, but I guess they are looking for words only and want her to teach her daughter that the words you say are the most important part, not the actions you take. I differ.
My parents didn't do the comparison thing with my brother and me.
They certainly didn't do it in front of other people.
But they would say, "Hey, look! She did that and look what happened. You could have that, too, if you worked really hard!"
So kind of using one as a rabbit for another, but not really putting anyone down.
My mother did tend to compare us to other children at school or in sports, and that kind of cheezed me off. But I wasn't scarred by it or anything.
I personally would avoid the comparisons, but I am not going to pander, either. If someone gets something for accomplishing something, then I'll be happy to explain to the other kid why they didn't get one, too.
Yes, same with me. I took what I thought was the good part of it and didn't take the parts that cheezed me off. lol
I would avoid the comparisons as well, but i wouldn't hold back my pats on the back to the one who did the work as to not upset the other.
Here's my 2 cents, tough love is great....as long as that is what is recommended by DD's therapist. I highly discourage you from taking a strong course of action based on posts from strangers without first talking it over with the therapist. If the present set up is not working for you, then talk to the therapist. Ask for DD to be referred to a different therapist, and ask for a referral for yourself to be given guidance on how best to deal with your DD.
Here's my 2 cents, tough love is great....as long as that is what is recommended by DD's therapist. I highly discourage you from taking a strong course of action based on posts from strangers without first talking it over with the therapist. If the present set up is not working for you, then talk to the therapist. Ask for DD to be referred to a different therapist, and ask for a referral for yourself to be given guidance on how best to deal with your DD.
^^This.
Not because "tough love" might hurt DD's feelings, but because it may actually make a bad situation even worse for the OP. There is nothing wrong with clear expectations and a no-nonsense attitude towards kids. I would never recommend "pandering" or giving in to tantrums or threats. However, if there is a history of giving in to prevent emotional outbursts, just starting to use "tough love" without thinking through what to do when DD inevitably escalates her behavior because she is no longer getting a response (which is called an extinction burst) can be dangerous. Strangers on the internet do not have the necessary information to troubleshoot this, a professional should. If the professional does not, it is time to find one who does. Add in that DD isn't seeing her therapist for the summer when this new intervention is going to take place and there are a whole lot of ways that good-intentioned advice can go very wrong.
Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 06-11-2012 at 10:19 AM..
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That's fine.