Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You're entitled to your belief. It doesn't make it accurate, though. I believe you would be hard pressed to find research backing your more global assertions or more accurately, the chain of assertions.
I agree that the means kids have access to today technologically have changed the way bad behaviors manifest. I reject that this has soured an entire generation or two of children. When I hear "kids these days" I tend to think the speaker is not attending to all the kids who are contributing, who aren't spoiled, who do know how to work hard, who are respectful and kind to others. These kids still exist, at least among the people, clients and students I've known, which while hardly a representative sample, spans four states and over 10 years.
ETA: re: your observations about the wealthy and the religious, anecdotally I know of plenty of parents raising moral, ethical and hard working children and teens who are neither wealthy nor religious.
Although the discussion about "kids today" is interesting and relevant to the Parenting forum, let's please keep this thread focused on the topic of Ms. Klein and any repercussions the children should face. Thank you!
And what event do you think changed things at the turn of the century? What laws moved children away from their homes and families for the better part of the day and into groups of their age mates?
I think the change has been comming for some time. I think the internet just magnfied it 1000 times. Back when I was a kid, the peer group was a force to be reconed with but, at the end of the day, we went home where the influence of family was still pretty strong. Today, kids are bombarded with messages from TV and the internet and are in constant contact with the all important peer group allowing the peer group to dominate all the time not just during school hours.
It isn't laws that moved kids away from homes and families. It was changing need. Now that we don't work the family farm anymore or learn our trade at our father's knee and the work world has become high tech, we send out kids off to school (a place where the peer group dominates) to learn what they need to go on for even more education so they can take over when they are adults. The end result is that each generation is an island unto itself answering only to itself for acceptance. In the past, the younger generation looked to the older generation to learn the skills to survive in life. We no longer pass down that knowledge because it's not needed. Each generation makes its own way.
Short of a solar flare taking out the grid, I don't see this changing any time soon. I think we lost something when we no longer needed the adults in our lives to train us in how to survive but it was inevetble. We've moved past the farm and the family business and into a global economy where each generation must find its own place and they do so as a unit with each member seeking the acceptance of the group. So far, it's pretty much been anything goes. I don't see the current generation policing itself. While I'm sure there are moral members, they seem to be silent. ... all that is needed for evil to win is for good men to remain silent....
Although the discussion about "kids today" is interesting and relevant to the Parenting forum, let's please keep this thread focused on the topic of Ms. Klein and any repercussions the children should face. Thank you!
I think the change has been comming for some time. I think the internet just magnfied it 1000 times. Back when I was a kid, the peer group was a force to be reconed with but, at the end of the day, we went home where the influence of family was still pretty strong. Today, kids are bombarded with messages from TV and the internet and are in constant contact with the all important peer group allowing the peer group to dominate all the time not just during school hours.
It isn't laws that moved kids away from homes and families. It was changing need. Now that we don't work the family farm anymore or learn our trade at our father's knee and the work world has become high tech, we send out kids off to school (a place where the peer group dominates) to learn what they need to go on for even more education so they can take over when they are adults. The end result is that each generation is an island unto itself answering only to itself for acceptance. In the past, the younger generation looked to the older generation to learn the skills to survive in life. We no longer pass down that knowledge because it's not needed. Each generation makes its own way.
Short of a solar flare taking out the grid, I don't see this changing any time soon. I think we lost something when we no longer needed the adults in our lives to train us in how to survive but it was inevetble. We've moved past the farm and the family business and into a global economy where each generation must find its own place and they do so as a unit with each member seeking the acceptance of the group. So far, it's pretty much been anything goes. I don't see the current generation policing itself. While I'm sure there are moral members, they seem to be silent. ... all that is needed for evil to win is for good men to remain silent....
The only thing I agree with here is that the kids on that bus certainly weren't policing themselves and from some of their parents' reactions, the parents weren't policing them appropriately either. I truly hope that the alleged reports of expulsion/suspension by the school and investigation by the police are accurate, because the kids who are on that tape deserve to be punished harshly and with much more than just discipline at home, IMO. I also think Ms. Klein is behaving much more graciously than I would be able to under the circumstances.
I think the change has been comming for some time. I think the internet just magnfied it 1000 times. Back when I was a kid, the peer group was a force to be reconed with but, at the end of the day, we went home where the influence of family was still pretty strong. Today, kids are bombarded with messages from TV and the internet and are in constant contact with the all important peer group allowing the peer group to dominate all the time not just during school hours.
It isn't laws that moved kids away from homes and families. It was changing need. Now that we don't work the family farm anymore or learn our trade at our father's knee and the work world has become high tech, we send out kids off to school (a place where the peer group dominates) to learn what they need to go on for even more education so they can take over when they are adults. The end result is that each generation is an island unto itself answering only to itself for acceptance. In the past, the younger generation looked to the older generation to learn the skills to survive in life. We no longer pass down that knowledge because it's not needed. Each generation makes its own way.
Short of a solar flare taking out the grid, I don't see this changing any time soon. I think we lost something when we no longer needed the adults in our lives to train us in how to survive but it was inevetble. We've moved past the farm and the family business and into a global economy where each generation must find its own place and they do so as a unit with each member seeking the acceptance of the group. So far, it's pretty much been anything goes. I don't see the current generation policing itself. While I'm sure there are moral members, they seem to be silent. ... all that is needed for evil to win is for good men to remain silent....
I am no spring chicken, and my parents had absolutely no idea what was happening socially amongst my peers. Kids kept bullying to themsleves, and talking to parents or other authority figures, such as teachers, about it was considered tattling, and a sign of weakness. Kids intervened sometimes, but for the most part bullying and negative peer pressure continued without the knowledge of parents or teachers. People who look back at this as good are welcome to do so, I think it was awful. I wasn't personally bullied, but I do know those who were, and they welcome the fact that we are more enlightened now.
Saying that previous generations did a better job of molding, etc. may be valid, but they also did a great job of ignoring many negatives, and with technology today we can no longer ignore, and for that I am grateful.
I think the change has been comming for some time. I think the internet just magnfied it 1000 times. Back when I was a kid, the peer group was a force to be reconed with but, at the end of the day, we went home where the influence of family was still pretty strong. Today, kids are bombarded with messages from TV and the internet and are in constant contact with the all important peer group allowing the peer group to dominate all the time not just during school hours.
It isn't laws that moved kids away from homes and families. It was changing need. Now that we don't work the family farm anymore or learn our trade at our father's knee and the work world has become high tech, we send out kids off to school (a place where the peer group dominates) to learn what they need to go on for even more education so they can take over when they are adults. The end result is that each generation is an island unto itself answering only to itself for acceptance. In the past, the younger generation looked to the older generation to learn the skills to survive in life. We no longer pass down that knowledge because it's not needed. Each generation makes its own way.
Short of a solar flare taking out the grid, I don't see this changing any time soon. I think we lost something when we no longer needed the adults in our lives to train us in how to survive but it was inevetble. We've moved past the farm and the family business and into a global economy where each generation must find its own place and they do so as a unit with each member seeking the acceptance of the group. So far, it's pretty much been anything goes. I don't see the current generation policing itself. While I'm sure there are moral members, they seem to be silent. ... all that is needed for evil to win is for good men to remain silent....
Yes, it was. Compulsory schooling laws and there was much resistance to these laws. You say that children no longer need to be with their families, that they need to be in school yet you also note your perceived decline of "kids today".
Bullying has been going on a long time. The school bus is notorious for bullying. It was when I was a kid and still is today. It happened in the days before the internet and cell phones. It can now be made public which I agree escalates things. I'm glad this video became public though because the children involved can be punished. It can't be kept secret. It's also opened up new dialogue regarding bullying which I think is important because many children are bullied each and everyday and little is done to protect them.
I feel for this woman and anyone else who has been the victim of a bully. My child would be in sooooooo much trouble if they did what these children in the video did.
I am no spring chicken, and my parents had absolutely no idea what was happening socially amongst my peers. Kids kept bullying to themsleves, and talking to parents or other authority figures, such as teachers, about it was considered tattling, and a sign of weakness. Kids intervened sometimes, but for the most part bullying and negative peer pressure continued without the knowledge of parents or teachers. People who look back at this as good are welcome to do so, I think it was awful. I wasn't personally bullied, but I do know those who were, and they welcome the fact that we are more enlightened now.
I don't think it was good. But one slightly redeeming feature was that there was no zero tolerance policy. So those who were capable of standing up for themselves could. My biggest fear wrt to modern authority intervention is that kids might not learn to stick up for themselves and/or the bully just goes underground leaving the kid in a worse situation.
Quote:
Saying that previous generations did a better job of molding, etc. may be valid, but they also did a great job of ignoring many negatives, and with technology today we can no longer ignore, and for that I am grateful.
I don't think it was good. But one slightly redeeming feature was that there was no zero tolerance policy. So those who were capable of standing up for themselves could. My biggest fear wrt to modern authority intervention is that kids might not learn to stick up for themselves and/or the bully just goes underground leaving the kid in a worse situation.
AND....in addition to the "no zero tolerance" policy back then... If there was a bus monitor on the bus, and those kids were talking to him/her in that fashion, there likely would have been some immediate "physical" consequences for their actions! In MY day, if you even talked back to the bus driver, much LESS had dared to use profanity, you would have been kicked off of the bus and had SERIOUS consequences. That's what gets me about the "zero tolerance" policies these days though, so much more is tolerated! You watched your mouth, too!
I don't know where you guys live, but if something like this happened in my area, the kids would be kicked off the bus so fast it would make their heads spin.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Agreed.
