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Please. You spent how many posts (in this thread alone, not to mention pretty much every thread you post in) complaining complaining complaining about kids, about how they're all catered to and "coddled" and how they will never succeed. And you have one little sentence about not going as far as abandoning them..... Well guess what? This thread is about going that far. And clearly, from the tone of posts, you have some sympathy for this father.
I'm still waiting to hear why exactly you can't have both a pleasant childhood of wonderful, enlightening experiences AND be prepared to be an adult when the time comes. I had no idea they were mutually exclusive.
As I said, READ my post....I, specifically, said we do not need to go to this extreme.... Reading comprehension is a good thing....
Why can't we have both? Because we can't. Look at our kids. Look at how they are faring compared to their counterparts who don't have child centered childhoods. Childhood is about preparing kids for adulthood not about being pleasant. It takes adversity to build strength. Our kids need to be strong to compete in this world. While we do not need to go to these extremes, we need to make sure they are challenged and that they know that THEY are required to figure out how to live up to those challenges. THAT is missing from childhood in the USA for too many kids.
What we can do is teach our kids that work comes first and then play. That play is earned. They'll be living that for the rest of their lives so we might as well prepare them for that. A childhood full of play does nothing to prepare them for the adult world and it has no benefit. It is, purely, for the enjoyment of the parents at the expense of the child once they become an adult.
If we raise our children like seedlings in a green house, we cannot expect them to be able to stand up to wind, sun and rain when the roof is gone. THAT is what we're supposed to be teaching them while they are children so they are ready for the adult world and that means placing expectations on them and letting them deal with the consequences when they don't live up to them. Like the dad who takes the car away every time Jr. gets a grade below 80%. He's teaching his son that work comes first and play is earned. Good job dad.
Coddling our children does not help them in the long run. It only makes them dependent on the coddling. I teach kids every day who cannot self assess because there's always been someone there to pat them on the back no matter how small an accomplishment they made. They don't have realistic ideas of what an accomplishment really is or what they are really capable of. They're lost without the compliments and they crumble in the face of criticism. Surely the world must be ending if someone actually points out something wrong with what they've presented since they've always been praised for the smallest of things.
By high school, I see no reason why kids should not be expected to do 15 hours a week of homework and no reason why they shouldn't be expected to self asses their own work (grades should not be a surprise by this age). By high school, they should be held responsible for their own grades and there should be consequences if those grades are not maintained (grades need to be realistic to do this so we need to fix grade inflation). It never ceases to amaze me that my students will use "I wasn't here when you taught that" as an excuse for not knowing something. They don't get that it is THEIR responsibility to make up THEIR missed work. (Another one is showing up after grades are posted complaining that they were absent the day an assignment was collected as if that excuses not turning it in the the week since it was collected). I could go on and on, but the point is by 16 our kids are failing to take responsibilty for their own learning. They are failing to do so because they've been too coddled. The coddling has to stop at some point, they have to be allowed to fall down, get hurt, pick themselves up, fix the problem and grow stronger for the effort so they'll be ready for the real world when they are adults.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 07-01-2012 at 06:38 PM..
Look at our kids? Mine are fine thanks. They benefitted from haviing a pleasant, interesting childhood, good schools, a close family, some travel....they are responsible, happy, polite and employed. And I don't believe unusual from what I see of their friends. Someone should have mentioned this wasn't possible before.
Last edited by maciesmom; 07-01-2012 at 07:21 PM..
"Childhood is about preparing our kids for adulthood, not about being pleasant."
This is probably the saddest thing I've read in awhile. Maybe YOUR kids' childhoods are entirely devoted to preparing them for adulthood, but not mine. And they're turning out pretty darn well.
I must tell you about my high school AP American History class. The teacher thought we were a bunch of smart azzes and I'm sorry to report we were. We spent a lot of time talking. We had opinions about how bad the school administration was. How ridiculous our student government was. We caused more than our share of trouble. One day, Mr. M told us all that if "he bought us for what we worth and sold us for what we thought we were worth he'd be a millionaire".
I will also add that Mr. M was a terrific teacher. He is one of the top 3 teachers I had in public school. He is a huge part of the reason I became a lawyer.
I have stayed in touch with many of the people in my class. Here is what became of the ones I know about:
1. One student has a career in international banking and lives in Europe, dividing his time between Germany and Spain.
2. One student is a college professor at a public university and teaches philosophy.
3. Four students became lawyers. One graduated from an ivy league law school. One has an important job administering courts in another state. Two have law offices in the community in which we were educated.
4. One student is a physician. He's an eye doctor.
5. Two became army officers.
6. One is an engineer who has worked for NASA.
7. One owns a very successful small business in southern California.
There are others out of a class of 25, I have totally lost touch with. I don't know what they do.
Kids have always been a bit wild and have challenged authority. Its a parent's job to put limits on it. Challenging authority, though, is part of the "growing up" process. I'm sure its hard as hell on some teachers and I sympathize with them now that I am an adult and see their perspective much more clearly. However, this is what young people do. If a teacher utterly can't stand this, maybe they are in the wrong field.
As I said, READ my post....I, specifically, said we do not need to go to this extreme.... Reading comprehension is a good thing....
Why can't we have both? Because we can't. Look at our kids. Look at how they are faring compared to their counterparts who don't have child centered childhoods. Childhood is about preparing kids for adulthood not about being pleasant. It takes adversity to build strength. Our kids need to be strong to compete in this world. While we do not need to go to these extremes, we need to make sure they are challenged and that they know that THEY are required to figure out how to live up to those challenges. THAT is missing from childhood in the USA for too many kids.
What we can do is teach our kids that work comes first and then play. That play is earned. They'll be living that for the rest of their lives so we might as well prepare them for that. A childhood full of play does nothing to prepare them for the adult world and it has no benefit. It is, purely, for the enjoyment of the parents at the expense of the child once they become an adult.
If we raise our children like seedlings in a green house, we cannot expect them to be able to stand up to wind, sun and rain when the roof is gone. THAT is what we're supposed to be teaching them while they are children so they are ready for the adult world and that means placing expectations on them and letting them deal with the consequences when they don't live up to them. Like the dad who takes the car away every time Jr. gets a grade below 80%. He's teaching his son that work comes first and play is earned. Good job dad.
Coddling our children does not help them in the long run. It only makes them dependent on the coddling. I teach kids every day who cannot self assess because there's always been someone there to pat them on the back no matter how small an accomplishment they made. They don't have realistic ideas of what an accomplishment really is or what they are really capable of. They're lost without the compliments and they crumble in the face of criticism. Surely the world must be ending if someone actually points out something wrong with what they've presented since they've always been praised for the smallest of things.
By high school, I see no reason why kids should not be expected to do 15 hours a week of homework and no reason why they shouldn't be expected to self asses their own work (grades should not be a surprise by this age). By high school, they should be held responsible for their own grades and there should be consequences if those grades are not maintained (grades need to be realistic to do this so we need to fix grade inflation). It never ceases to amaze me that my students will use "I wasn't here when you taught that" as an excuse for not knowing something. They don't get that it is THEIR responsibility to make up THEIR missed work. (Another one is showing up after grades are posted complaining that they were absent the day an assignment was collected as if that excuses not turning it in the the week since it was collected). I could go on and on, but the point is by 16 our kids are failing to take responsibilty for their own learning. They are failing to do so because they've been too coddled. The coddling has to stop at some point, they have to be allowed to fall down, get hurt, pick themselves up, fix the problem and grow stronger for the effort so they'll be ready for the real world when they are adults.
Yes well America never had those crazy standards and has managed to lead the world. So perhaps it can be a simple fact of different strokes for different folks? 15 hours a week on homework is college level material between school, and homework, and study that would leave pretty much no childhood whatsoever. If you want to raise your kids in a way that leaves nothing but an endless exam cram then that's your prerogative. I would prefer my kids to remember there is more to life then a career and have some fond memories of childhood.
I must tell you about my high school AP American History class. The teacher thought we were a bunch of smart azzes and I'm sorry to report we were. We spent a lot of time talking. We had opinions about how bad the school administration was. How ridiculous our student government was. We caused more than our share of trouble. One day, Mr. M told us all that if "he bought us for what we worth and sold us for what we thought we were worth he'd be a millionaire".
I will also add that Mr. M was a terrific teacher. He is one of the top 3 teachers I had in public school. He is a huge part of the reason I became a lawyer.
I have stayed in touch with many of the people in my class. Here is what became of the ones I know about:
1. One student has a career in international banking and lives in Europe, dividing his time between Germany and Spain.
2. One student is a college professor at a public university and teaches philosophy.
3. Four students became lawyers. One graduated from an ivy league law school. One has an important job administering courts in another state. Two have law offices in the community in which we were educated.
4. One student is a physician. He's an eye doctor.
5. Two became army officers.
6. One is an engineer who has worked for NASA.
7. One owns a very successful small business in southern California.
There are others out of a class of 25, I have totally lost touch with. I don't know what they do.
Kids have always been a bit wild and have challenged authority. Its a parent's job to put limits on it. Challenging authority, though, is part of the "growing up" process. I'm sure its hard as hell on some teachers and I sympathize with them now that I am an adult and see their perspective much more clearly. However, this is what young people do. If a teacher utterly can't stand this, maybe they are in the wrong field.
I think every generation feels the next generation is so much more unruly then theirs was. My mom said when she was in high school parents and teachers used to bemoan the generation of pleasure and laziness that was hers.
Yes well America never had those crazy standards and has managed to lead the world. So perhaps it can be a simple fact of different strokes for different folks? 15 hours a week on homework is college level material between school, and homework, and study that would leave pretty much no childhood whatsoever. If you want to raise your kids in a way that leaves nothing but an endless exam cram then that's your prerogative. I would prefer my kids to remember there is more to life then a career and have some fond memories of childhood.
Life is NOT all about school or work. I want my kids to know that.
As I said, READ my post....I, specifically, said we do not need to go to this extreme.... Reading comprehension is a good thing....
Why can't we have both? Because we can't. Look at our kids. Look at how they are faring compared to their counterparts who don't have child centered childhoods. Childhood is about preparing kids for adulthood not about being pleasant. It takes adversity to build strength. Our kids need to be strong to compete in this world. While we do not need to go to these extremes, we need to make sure they are challenged and that they know that THEY are required to figure out how to live up to those challenges. THAT is missing from childhood in the USA for too many kids.
What we can do is teach our kids that work comes first and then play. That play is earned. They'll be living that for the rest of their lives so we might as well prepare them for that. A childhood full of play does nothing to prepare them for the adult world and it has no benefit. It is, purely, for the enjoyment of the parents at the expense of the child once they become an adult.
If we raise our children like seedlings in a green house, we cannot expect them to be able to stand up to wind, sun and rain when the roof is gone. THAT is what we're supposed to be teaching them while they are children so they are ready for the adult world and that means placing expectations on them and letting them deal with the consequences when they don't live up to them. Like the dad who takes the car away every time Jr. gets a grade below 80%. He's teaching his son that work comes first and play is earned. Good job dad.
Coddling our children does not help them in the long run. It only makes them dependent on the coddling. I teach kids every day who cannot self assess because there's always been someone there to pat them on the back no matter how small an accomplishment they made. They don't have realistic ideas of what an accomplishment really is or what they are really capable of. They're lost without the compliments and they crumble in the face of criticism. Surely the world must be ending if someone actually points out something wrong with what they've presented since they've always been praised for the smallest of things.
By high school, I see no reason why kids should not be expected to do 15 hours a week of homework and no reason why they shouldn't be expected to self asses their own work (grades should not be a surprise by this age). By high school, they should be held responsible for their own grades and there should be consequences if those grades are not maintained (grades need to be realistic to do this so we need to fix grade inflation). It never ceases to amaze me that my students will use "I wasn't here when you taught that" as an excuse for not knowing something. They don't get that it is THEIR responsibility to make up THEIR missed work. (Another one is showing up after grades are posted complaining that they were absent the day an assignment was collected as if that excuses not turning it in the the week since it was collected). I could go on and on, but the point is by 16 our kids are failing to take responsibilty for their own learning. They are failing to do so because they've been too coddled. The coddling has to stop at some point, they have to be allowed to fall down, get hurt, pick themselves up, fix the problem and grow stronger for the effort so they'll be ready for the real world when they are adults.
I couldn't disagree more. Children are children. They are not miniature adults who need to experience constant adult like experiences in order to learn and function in the real world as adults. Play is critically important to children. Not only do they learn so much from it, it's how they learn. It's essential for children to have plenty of time for free play. Research supports this.
Play is so important to optimal child development that it has been recognized by the United Nations High Commission for Human Rights as a right of every child.1 This birthright is challenged by forces including child labor and exploitation practices, war and neighborhood violence, and the limited resources available to children living in poverty. However, even those children who are fortunate enough to have abundant available resources and who live in relative peace may not be receiving the full benefits of play. Many of these children are being raised in an increasingly hurried and pressured style that may limit the protective benefits they would gain from child-driven play.
As I said, READ my post....I, specifically, said we do not need to go to this extreme.... Reading comprehension is a good thing....
Why can't we have both? Because we can't. Look at our kids. Look at how they are faring compared to their counterparts who don't have child centered childhoods. Childhood is about preparing kids for adulthood not about being pleasant. It takes adversity to build strength. Our kids need to be strong to compete in this world. While we do not need to go to these extremes, we need to make sure they are challenged and that they know that THEY are required to figure out how to live up to those challenges. THAT is missing from childhood in the USA for too many kids.
What we can do is teach our kids that work comes first and then play. That play is earned. They'll be living that for the rest of their lives so we might as well prepare them for that. A childhood full of play does nothing to prepare them for the adult world and it has no benefit. It is, purely, for the enjoyment of the parents at the expense of the child once they become an adult.
If we raise our children like seedlings in a green house, we cannot expect them to be able to stand up to wind, sun and rain when the roof is gone. THAT is what we're supposed to be teaching them while they are children so they are ready for the adult world and that means placing expectations on them and letting them deal with the consequences when they don't live up to them. Like the dad who takes the car away every time Jr. gets a grade below 80%. He's teaching his son that work comes first and play is earned. Good job dad.
Coddling our children does not help them in the long run. It only makes them dependent on the coddling. I teach kids every day who cannot self assess because there's always been someone there to pat them on the back no matter how small an accomplishment they made. They don't have realistic ideas of what an accomplishment really is or what they are really capable of. They're lost without the compliments and they crumble in the face of criticism. Surely the world must be ending if someone actually points out something wrong with what they've presented since they've always been praised for the smallest of things.
By high school, I see no reason why kids should not be expected to do 15 hours a week of homework and no reason why they shouldn't be expected to self asses their own work (grades should not be a surprise by this age). By high school, they should be held responsible for their own grades and there should be consequences if those grades are not maintained (grades need to be realistic to do this so we need to fix grade inflation). It never ceases to amaze me that my students will use "I wasn't here when you taught that" as an excuse for not knowing something. They don't get that it is THEIR responsibility to make up THEIR missed work. (Another one is showing up after grades are posted complaining that they were absent the day an assignment was collected as if that excuses not turning it in the the week since it was collected). I could go on and on, but the point is by 16 our kids are failing to take responsibilty for their own learning. They are failing to do so because they've been too coddled. The coddling has to stop at some point, they have to be allowed to fall down, get hurt, pick themselves up, fix the problem and grow stronger for the effort so they'll be ready for the real world when they are adults.
I believe real learning is done when the student is self-motivated. If one of my kids got a poor grade, the onus was on them to work harder. Not me, to make sure they did. If they studied just to pass a test so they wouldn't lose car privileges, then they would pass. If they wanted to understand what they were studying by going beyond a study guide, then they stood a much better chance of retaining the material. They learned that very early, hence they performed well in school.
I also think learning to socialize is a huge part of the maturation process, even if done by the sneered upon play dates. Of course, most educators agree, which is why early schooling is a blend of learning and play. I'd rather raise a child that can handle himself in the big world, not just the classroom.
It never ceases to amaze me that you have such a negative view of the students that you work with. How can it be most of us have intimate knowledge of bright, ambitious, mature teens, and you only see bad in the ones you come in contact with?
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