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Old 07-30-2012, 09:26 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,251,318 times
Reputation: 5565

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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
How are your children at daycare or kindergarten? Do they yell one word demands to the teacher and then throw a tantrum if they don't get their own way? Do they clean up at day care or school? Ask the teacher to find out for sure. If they are compliant and follow directions for others than they should be able to do it for you and your husband.

I'm a retired early childhood teacher. I can't tell you how many times a parent has observed "clean-up time" in my room and was shocked at seeing their 3, 4 or 5 year old quickly and appropriately putting away the toys before the next activity while cheerfully singing our clean-up song. I was told again and again by parents that their child had never once cleaned up on their own or even helped with clean-up at home.

Start with one small area at a time and built success and move on to other areas. Perhaps constantly getting snacks for your children is a problem. We set it up that our kids could get their own healthy snacks and juice boxes from the bottom shelf of the fridge and a certain low cupboard. That may not work in your situation but totally ignoring yelled demands and wait until they ask you nicely by themselves, without any prompting by you, may work better.

Room clean-up works best with fewer toys and small bins labeled with pictures (one bin for stuffed animals, another bin for toy cars and trucks, etc). What worked well at our house was the routine that all the toys in the playroom had to be put away before bedtime. If they weren't I packed them in a box and put them in the garage for a week or two. It only took once or twice for a favorite toy to disappear for our kids to learn to cleanup. If they were especially tired or an unusally large amount of toys were out we would play a game to see who could put 10 toys away the quickest. Boy, that worked well.

And, enlist your husband. They are his kids, too.

Hang in there!
Clean up, clean up, everybody do your share. Clean up, clean up, everybody everywhere.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,251,318 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razz2525 View Post
Malamute - thank you so much for your post. It's funny because I tried to broach the subject with DH the other day about him not pulling his weight... how his playing Xbox in front of the kids and me, while I'm trying to corral them isn't doing any of us any good. He thinks it's better than holing up in his office playing videogames, claiming that he's more accessible to me if I need help, but I still thinks it's BS. I do believe my older son has no respect for me, or very little -- when I tell him he can't have something, particularly PB&J which he eats ALL of the time, he just goes to DH and DH gives it to him! When I try to stop DH, he says "The kid is too skinny and we don't have any alternative in the house to fatten him up." So my older son, who'd been throwing a tantrum (falling on the floor crying) about his PB&J-less status found out he was getting it anyway, he started smiling secretly to me. I know I'm projecting here but the look was "I won." So I said (and shame on me) "See? You got what you wanted." DH gave me a look and I told DH that DS #1 had been smiling behind his back (which he ALWAYS does when DH gives in to him), and DH scolded DS. I was so pissed since I know DS didn't care. I've tried to say to DH that we need to work as a team and be consistent so that I'm not the "bad guy" when DH gives in to DS' demands. I told DH that our son will go to him and ask for something that I've already said no to, and asked DH to check with me before he says "yes". DH said "Why don't you give me the heads up that you already told him no instead of me always checking in with you?" Am I missing something here? I have to run to DH to give him the headsup but DH doesn't have to give me the headsup that DS is pulling this nonsense? DH just said he didn't want to do the work of trying to find out if DS was playing us. This is why I feel burdened: I get no respect for DS#1, DS#2 is quickly learning he can yell at me too.

DH left for a business trip yesterday and the kids were watching a little bit of TV before bed. When I realized the show was going on and on past the bedtime, I turned the TV off and the kids freaked out. I felt bad that I hadn't realized the show was continuing, but I knew I couldn't give in. My older son can barely get up in the morning as it is. DS#1 threw himself on the ground, and DS#2 yelled at me and pointed his finger, "What's wrong with you! You don't get to turn off the TV!". Yes, a 2 1/2 year old. I can admit that because I was still steamed about the PB&J incident, when DS#2 yelled and pointed his finger at me, I gave him a wallop. DS#1, who always feels that he's in trouble compared to his younger brother, got all wide eyed and when I told him to get to bed, he couldn't get there fast enough. I felt so guilty about it particularly because I wasn't just angry about DS#2 beginning to mouth off to me like DS#1 does, because I was still ticked off that DS just doesn't seem to get that I am low man on the totem pole in the house. DH yelling "Don't disrespect your mother!" doesn't do squat when DH doesn't show it in his actions. I even told the younger one as I put him into his bed that he better not copy his brother and talk to me like that. He just looked at me and nodded.

So the sad moral of the story is that they were angels this morning. They started whining a little bit about the TV as they had their breakfast, but I told them after last night's tantrums, no way. They accepted it and played together until it was time to take them to school. I even got them out of the house on time so I could get to work. As my mother-in-law says (and she's old-school Latin grandmother), spanking the kids sometimes works although I never thought in a million years I'd spank or "thump" my kids... especially if I'm angry. The second part of the sad story is that I do better with the kids without DH around. Maybe I do take on this subservient role when DH is home. My therapist says that I should ask DS#1 to draw a pic of the family to see how I'm portrayed, whether I'm equal to Daddy or really, really small. She said military school would be the worst thing for DS#1 since he's just desperate for some bonding time with DH and would see it as abandonment. I really do not see myself as long-term in this marriage (as it is, we've been married 7 years), but I probably will because as you said, I'm going through the motions. I just know that it will be a whole lot harder to cope with kids feeling free to yell and DH being oblivious when the kids are not 5 and 2 but 13 and 10!

Sorry for rambling on again today, but yesterday was a real drainer. I think I only got 4 hours of sleep last night.
Next time dh does it grab the sandwich and tell him to meet you in another room. Than explain if all he wants to do is undermine what you say then he can sit his ass and play his xbox, then walk away. You want him to understand that you are going to stand up to him when he does that and he will learn to back down. Then explain to your children that if they go to their father behind your back they will get punished. Your kids are simply picking up on the fact that they can just go to dad to get what they want. And his disrespect for you is rubbing off on them. You need to basically stand your ground,and stand up to him or else it will just get worse.

Last edited by ~HecateWhisperCat~; 07-30-2012 at 09:42 AM..
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: North Dallas
368 posts, read 927,404 times
Reputation: 156
Germaine, you are so right. My 2 1/2 year old cleans up like a champ at preschool and so does my 5 year old (but he must be prompted by some sort of competitive challenge - "how fast can you clean up?") I successfully got him to reorganize all the toys in his drawers because it was a disaster and he enjoyed doing it.
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
93 posts, read 156,113 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razz2525 View Post
I imagine everyone could answer "yes" to this question. We all may have pre-conceived notions of what it will be like to be a parent and we all have the best of plans when we're pregnant how we're not going to do x or y. We either want to follow our own parents' way of doing things or do the complete opposite depending on how your own childhood went...

I just turned 40 recently and it feels as if I've woken up to certain things. I was raised by parents who had "old souls." They seemed more like my grandparents than my parents. My dad was more the comic relief who didn't know what was going on in the house most of the time, but he went to work everyday like clockwork and never took a sick day. He' still working full-time at 84 years old. My mother was a stay-at-home mom who ironed my clothes, did my laundry, and even said she didn't want me to do chores because it was "her house, her responsibility." One angry look from my mother made me stay quiet for HOURS until she decided she wanted to be "friendly" with me again. I was a very obedient child and though in hindsight I see that my mother was way too overprotective and worried about my psyche, I grew up thinking I wanted that same closeness between me and my children. My mother passed away suddenly 8 years ago but I said to myself that I couldn't wait to be a mother myself - I wouldn't be as controlling as my mother was, but I'd be patient and understanding, give lots of physical affection (which she didn't), etc., etc. .

Reality: my children listen to me when they want to listen. They yell at me "Water!" "Hungry!" and I have to make them ask me nicely which they do reluctantly. They hug me when they want something and when I say "not right now," they run away and scream. I have a 5-year-old who's more distracted than defiant these days, which is an improvement but he just can't help himself; he's compelled to have the last word or defend himself in some way. My almost-3-year-old has a tantrum it seems every 15 minutes - if I say no to TV OR if I take him to the bathroom to go potty OR I give him water instead of juice. My husband tries to re-direct the kids if they really start overwhelming me (because they won't jump on him or ask for food every 5 minutes - it will be me the minute I sit down - alone - to eat). But DH will let them trash their rooms because after all, they're not bothering me so I should be happy. Meanwhile, when bedtime comes, their rooms are an absolute mess and no one sees a problem with it. I ask the boys to do "clean up" wth me and they all fall down on the couch and say they can't, they're too tired, as DH continues to play xbox in the background. Plus I'm exhausted every night when I come home from a high-stress job and I'm going to school part-time, but according to DH, I can't change to a less-stressful job with less responsibility "because I make too much money" and we can't afford a paycut.

As you can tell, I'm feeling a bit fed up but mostly because my image of myself and as a parent at this age is so different from reality. I'm always tired. I could sleep for hours. I dread it when the kids wake me up early Saturday and Sunday. I'm having a hard time appreciating the things that matter -- I'm in ok healthy, my kids are healthy, we have a roof over our heads and both my husband and I have jobs. That should be good enough, right??

But I suffer from mommy guilt, that I'm not able to be a stay-at-home mom like my mom was so when my son starts kindergarten in the fall, I can be there for him instead of working until late hours everyday and being exhausted by the time I get home. I suffer from guilt at not looking past the tantrums and not energizing myself to distract the kids. I imagined a more supportive and less anal retentive husband who can't help himself from criticizing the way I made the eggs this morning. I can't figure out why my kids don't listen to me when I was such an obedient child. I give the kids "the look," they just wait 5 minutes and start doing it again. I don't know what happened, but I hit 40 and realized I'm not doing what I want to be doing professionally, I don't have kids that I enjoy spending time with (for more than 10 minutes), and the hubby isn't necessarily making things better for me. Is 5 and 3 too young for military school lol??? I just foresee myself going through the motions for the next 10 years working long hours, surviving my kids' maturing, resigning myself to husband's anal ways, and not having any time to exercise. And my husband just got a dog and I have to monitor him too because he's not house trained. And yes, I'm in therapy and we keep working on me finding ways to look on the bright side, but it's really hard.

I remember my mom turning 50 and telling me the beauty of it was that she didn't give a s**t anymore lol! She was done making dinners and running around doing people's laundry and cleaning the bathrooms everyday. She went out to eat with my dad, traveled to Europe every summer, and left cleaning to every weekend. Everyone had to do their own laundry. She got her PhD and seemed to really start enoying life. Before she died, she started talking about moving with my Dad to Spain just to live in another country. I just turned 40 and I'm starting to feel this waaaaay too early! I wish she was around to give me a swift kick in the pants.

Sorry so long. I'm ranting as I sit at Starbucks and try to do schoolwork. I left after DH and I had that big fight over the eggs! Eggs! Seriously!
I did see a neat idea about kids leaving things for mom to pick up and a way to get them to stop doing that. One woman labeled a box with "Mom's finds" and then attached little paper slips with a different chore (or consequence) to get the item back, such as "No tv for tonight to earn back one item" or "vacuum living room to earn back one item". Whenever you find something out of place, you put it in the box and they have to "earn" it back, but they can choose which chore/consequence they have to perform in order to get it back. It may or may not be worth a shot...

And the eggs thing - well I'm sure you could always tell him he can make them himself right? Good luck!
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:26 PM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,418,619 times
Reputation: 3050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razz2525 View Post
I imagine everyone could answer "yes" to this question. We all may have pre-conceived notions of what it will be like to be a parent and we all have the best of plans when we're pregnant how we're not going to do x or y. We either want to follow our own parents' way of doing things or do the complete opposite depending on how your own childhood went...

I just turned 40 recently and it feels as if I've woken up to certain things. I was raised by parents who had "old souls." They seemed more like my grandparents than my parents. My dad was more the comic relief who didn't know what was going on in the house most of the time, but he went to work everyday like clockwork and never took a sick day. He' still working full-time at 84 years old. My mother was a stay-at-home mom who ironed my clothes, did my laundry, and even said she didn't want me to do chores because it was "her house, her responsibility." One angry look from my mother made me stay quiet for HOURS until she decided she wanted to be "friendly" with me again. I was a very obedient child and though in hindsight I see that my mother was way too overprotective and worried about my psyche, I grew up thinking I wanted that same closeness between me and my children. My mother passed away suddenly 8 years ago but I said to myself that I couldn't wait to be a mother myself - I wouldn't be as controlling as my mother was, but I'd be patient and understanding, give lots of physical affection (which she didn't), etc., etc. .

Reality: my children listen to me when they want to listen. They yell at me "Water!" "Hungry!" and I have to make them ask me nicely which they do reluctantly. They hug me when they want something and when I say "not right now," they run away and scream. I have a 5-year-old who's more distracted than defiant these days, which is an improvement but he just can't help himself; he's compelled to have the last word or defend himself in some way. My almost-3-year-old has a tantrum it seems every 15 minutes - if I say no to TV OR if I take him to the bathroom to go potty OR I give him water instead of juice. My husband tries to re-direct the kids if they really start overwhelming me (because they won't jump on him or ask for food every 5 minutes - it will be me the minute I sit down - alone - to eat). But DH will let them trash their rooms because after all, they're not bothering me so I should be happy. Meanwhile, when bedtime comes, their rooms are an absolute mess and no one sees a problem with it. I ask the boys to do "clean up" wth me and they all fall down on the couch and say they can't, they're too tired, as DH continues to play xbox in the background. Plus I'm exhausted every night when I come home from a high-stress job and I'm going to school part-time, but according to DH, I can't change to a less-stressful job with less responsibility "because I make too much money" and we can't afford a paycut.

As you can tell, I'm feeling a bit fed up but mostly because my image of myself and as a parent at this age is so different from reality. I'm always tired. I could sleep for hours. I dread it when the kids wake me up early Saturday and Sunday. I'm having a hard time appreciating the things that matter -- I'm in ok healthy, my kids are healthy, we have a roof over our heads and both my husband and I have jobs. That should be good enough, right??

But I suffer from mommy guilt, that I'm not able to be a stay-at-home mom like my mom was so when my son starts kindergarten in the fall, I can be there for him instead of working until late hours everyday and being exhausted by the time I get home. I suffer from guilt at not looking past the tantrums and not energizing myself to distract the kids. I imagined a more supportive and less anal retentive husband who can't help himself from criticizing the way I made the eggs this morning. I can't figure out why my kids don't listen to me when I was such an obedient child. I give the kids "the look," they just wait 5 minutes and start doing it again. I don't know what happened, but I hit 40 and realized I'm not doing what I want to be doing professionally, I don't have kids that I enjoy spending time with (for more than 10 minutes), and the hubby isn't necessarily making things better for me. Is 5 and 3 too young for military school lol??? I just foresee myself going through the motions for the next 10 years working long hours, surviving my kids' maturing, resigning myself to husband's anal ways, and not having any time to exercise. And my husband just got a dog and I have to monitor him too because he's not house trained. And yes, I'm in therapy and we keep working on me finding ways to look on the bright side, but it's really hard.

I remember my mom turning 50 and telling me the beauty of it was that she didn't give a s**t anymore lol! She was done making dinners and running around doing people's laundry and cleaning the bathrooms everyday. She went out to eat with my dad, traveled to Europe every summer, and left cleaning to every weekend. Everyone had to do their own laundry. She got her PhD and seemed to really start enoying life. Before she died, she started talking about moving with my Dad to Spain just to live in another country. I just turned 40 and I'm starting to feel this waaaaay too early! I wish she was around to give me a swift kick in the pants.

Sorry so long. I'm ranting as I sit at Starbucks and try to do schoolwork. I left after DH and I had that big fight over the eggs! Eggs! Seriously!
For this age you might want to look into the Love and Logic program
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:20 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,570,473 times
Reputation: 22474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razz2525 View Post
I really do not see myself as long-term in this marriage (as it is, we've been married 7 years), but I probably will because as you said, I'm going through the motions. I just know that it will be a whole lot harder to cope with kids feeling free to yell and DH being oblivious when the kids are not 5 and 2 but 13 and 10!

Sorry for rambling on again today, but yesterday was a real drainer. I think I only got 4 hours of sleep last night.
One thing I think is that you should stop trying to control DH -- just leave him be playing his video games and get yourself and the kids out and start having fun. Go to parks, take them on hikes, exploring what you can, be a kid with them, find joy for yourself and them.

Depending on where you live, buy them a tent, since they're little set it up in the back yard and go camping, spread a blanket and lay under the stars and show them the night sky -- ride bikes with them, get swimming lessons, with them -- whatever. Rediscover your own childhood with them.

There's a serenity prayer about changing the things you can change, and not trying to change what you cannot change. You may not be able to control your husband but you can get back in harmony with yourself. Parenting can really be a whole lot of fun. It can be the best time of your life - if you let it be.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:32 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,570,473 times
Reputation: 22474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razz2525 View Post
Germaine, you are so right. My 2 1/2 year old cleans up like a champ at preschool and so does my 5 year old (but he must be prompted by some sort of competitive challenge - "how fast can you clean up?") I successfully got him to reorganize all the toys in his drawers because it was a disaster and he enjoyed doing it.
That's a great approach -- make it fun. A whole lot of things can be made fun instead of just another headache.

There's a little poem I think is important for parents -- even put it on the wall --

Cleaning and sweeping
can wait for tomorrow

Babies grow up
we've learned to our sorrow

So settle down cobwebs
Dust go to sleep

I'm rocking my baby
And babies don't keep

--- You really don't want to miss the best times of your life and lose out on the funnest years you have with your kids. You can never get the time back. Don't get bogged down in little details. Housework really will wait, it's really not earth shattering if all the toys don't always get picked up.

And there is this one -- not written by a girl with cancer as commonly believed -- but a good message all the same:

S L O W D A N C E:

Have you ever watched kids
on a merry-go-round?

Or listened to the rain
slapping on the ground?

Ever followed a butterfly’s erratic flight?
Or gazed at the sun into the fading night?

You better slow down
Don’t dance so fast

Time is short
The music won’t last

Do you run through each day
On the fly

When you ask “How are you?”
Do you hear the reply?

When the day is done,
do you lie in your bed

With the next hundred chores
running through your head?

You’d better slow down
Don’t dance so fast

Time is short
The music won’t last

Ever told your child,
We’ll do it tomorrow?

And in your haste,
not see his sorrow?

Ever lost touch,
Let a good friendship die

‘Cause you never had time
To call and say “Hi”?

You’d better slow down
Don’t dance so fast

Time is short
The music won’t last

When you run so fast to get somewhere
You miss half the fun of getting there.

When you worry and hurry through your day,
It is like an unopened gift….Thrown away…

Life is not a race.
Do take it slower

Hear the music
Before the song is over.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Outer Space
1,523 posts, read 3,894,926 times
Reputation: 1816
Quote:
I remember my mom turning 50 and telling me the beauty of it was that she didn't give a s**t anymore lol! She was done making dinners and running around doing people's laundry and cleaning the bathrooms everyday. She went out to eat with my dad, traveled to Europe every summer, and left cleaning to every weekend. Everyone had to do their own laundry. She got her PhD and seemed to really start enoying life. Before she died, she started talking about moving with my Dad to Spain just to live in another country. I just turned 40 and I'm starting to feel this waaaaay too early! I wish she was around to give me a swift kick in the pants.
Having kids is boring, grueling drudge work 99% of the time. They make you appreciate the freedom you had before you had them and you lament the sometimes sky high opportunity costs associated with having them. That's just how it is, regardless of how much you love and care for your kids now. Kids are extremely expensive and sometimes it is only after you have them that you begin to grasp the full scale of the restrictions they place on your life. You just got to suck it up and deal. One day, you'll have another life, but got to get through this one first.
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