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California just passed a ban on ex-gay therapy for minors. It got me thinking in general if there should be legal limits on what parents are allowed to teach to their children, either religiously or otherwise.
Could it be considered child abuse to raise a child as part of the KKK? To force a gay child to attend a very conservative Catholic church? To raise a child with anti-American beliefs and 'off the grid?"
Obviously the decision in CA is a bit different because ex-gay therapy is masquerading as a medical technique. But the same parent who wanted to send their child to such therapy can inflict many of the same techniques in a home setting. Gay children and teens have a high rate of depression and suicide, often because they are in home situations where they are shamed, forced to hid, or pressured to change.
At what point does a parent's individual beliefs cross over the line into child abuse?
Should there be any limits at all to what concepts or beliefs a parent can attempt to pass down?
That is a good question. In very extreme cases I suppose society could find ways to intervene.
For me though, it seems like you'd ultimately be limiting the free speech of the parents. I'm not sure how you define ideology...i s it something learned at church or through the KKK?
If you are talking about teaching your kid to be racist, one can be much more subtle about it, but still pass on an "ideology".
IMO, there is a big slippery slope here. I think it is already very hard to quantify what constitutes emotional and psychological abuse (saying this as a person mandated to report it when I see it). I am not sure what the answer is, but I bristle a little bit about where the line will get drawn and by whom, while also having a strong urge to protect kids from things in their families that will harm them. Logistically, I wonder how banning certain ideologies would work - how does one measure harm, particularly if it is more insidious than imminent (which psychological and emotional abuse tend to be)? Interesting thread topic, I am curious to see what thoughts people have.
You would compare the KKK with the Catholic Church? What about your own extreme ideology? Should it be banned? Should your kids be removed from your home due to a very anti-religious ideology?
Whose ideology would you ban? Because once you start wanting to take people's children away because they don't walk lock-step with you, it is a slippery slope.
You would compare the KKK with the Catholic Church? What about your own extreme ideology? Should it be banned? Should your kids be removed from your home due to a very anti-religious ideology?
Whose ideology would you ban? Because once you start wanting to take people's children away because they don't walk lock-step with you, it is a slippery slope.
I didn't say they were the same. There are different factions of Catholics, just as in every other religious group. And just because a list is composed of several items doesn't mean every item on the list is directly comparable to every other item.
But SOME churches and groups do take a very hard anti-homosexual line. To a gay child growing up in such a household, it can be a profoundly toxic environment and sometimes a lethal one. This question is about the effects on the child, not adults who may be uncomfortable with someone else's belief system.
You may notice I also never said if I personally believed there should be a legal limit on teaching ideology. Like others have stated, I don't think it is either possible or wise to attempt this. My kneejerk reaction is to say that there should be limits, but it would be impossible and unethical to attempt to define where those limits are.
But I do think that some ideologies can cross the line into mental child abuse. On one hand, you have belief systems that focus on racism or hatred, such as the KKK. Does child abuse include the teaching of hatred for entire groups of people? Then you have situations where a parent's beliefs are directly harmful to the individual child, such as in a situation with a gay child being pressured to change. Does that cross the line?
I don't have an answer because I don't think there are easy answers.
no I don't think we can get into what parents can teach or not teach. Talk about Big Brother.
While I abhor how some children are being raised and the damage it may be doing to our society, isn't that one of the basic rights we as American are defending and standing up for?
I wouldn't want to live in a society whose government tells me as a parent what I have to teach my children and then punishes or even kills me when I deviate from what is dictated. Does North Korea come to mind? Some of the extreme Muslim dictatorships?
No, we should be allowed to raise our families with ideology we choose and as a society we have to work and trust that extremes do not prevail.
One example is that wacky "church" where the members stage protests outside funerals of our brave fallen soldiers. That in my mind is so horrible and the children in this group are being brain washed and abused. The Supreme Court thinks otherwise-well they did not directly address the issue of how the children are being manipulated but the group as a whole can express their freedom of speech. While I don't agree with what this group has to say, and I have volunteered to block families from their presence, I do believe in Free Speech.
California just passed a ban on ex-gay therapy for minors. It got me thinking in general if there should be legal limits on what parents are allowed to teach to their children, either religiously or otherwise.
Could it be considered child abuse to raise a child as part of the KKK? To force a gay child to attend a very conservative Catholic church? To raise a child with anti-American beliefs and 'off the grid?"
Obviously the decision in CA is a bit different because ex-gay therapy is masquerading as a medical technique. But the same parent who wanted to send their child to such therapy can inflict many of the same techniques in a home setting. Gay children and teens have a high rate of depression and suicide, often because they are in home situations where they are shamed, forced to hid, or pressured to change.
At what point does a parent's individual beliefs cross over the line into child abuse?
Should there be any limits at all to what concepts or beliefs a parent can attempt to pass down?
Just because you make it illegal to have your own original thoughts and wish to pass along your thoughts and feelings to your children does not mean it will ever be enforced. How do you enforce what humans think, feel and say to anyone? This does not even make sense to me and how do you gauge what is child abuse when it comes to thoughts and words said to children in their own home?
Do you have any idea how hard it is to legally prove that a parent has emotionally abused a child?
I do and trust me it is NOT something that is done easily or often and there is no way possible to limit what concepts or beliefs a parent passes down to a child. Unless of course you want to take every child born and put them in some sort of camp run by the Government where ONLY the government can pass down the "proper" concepts and beliefs to the child until they are old enough to go safely into the world and NEVER have their own original thoughts.
This is an attack against the family- an attack on Matriarchy and Patriarchy. It is not about "Ideology" - It is about familiar identity..about tradition and personal and private value systems. A family is like a sovereign nation. Each nation on earth started off as one family or tribe.
Offspring are the product of the sovereign human body. Children are the property of those who produced them. No different than a crop out of a garden....They are not the property of ideologues or the state. If a father or mother wants to pass down their values to the kids..it happens naturally- if those values are unhealthy - the child as they mature will make the needed adjustments.
The PRIVATE SPHERE is what nations are dependent on as far as sustainability. I looked at some old records concerning my fathers family who were destroyed by the communists.. By each name was the phrase "operated in the private sphere"....being private got them killed...Privacy and personal sovereignty are in jeopardy. History is repeating itself...eventually people will be contain and or destroyed for simply being THEMSELVES.
Never submit to collectivism...as for the legal age regarding ideology.....There is no age where radical ideologues or the state have a right to kidnap the minds of your kids- Children are property- they are private property - No one has the right to steal your child or the mind of that child...Parental right is a divine right...Every parent is a king or queen in their own realm...and those that wish to over throw these mini-kingdoms can kiss my butt.
This is an attack against the family- an attack on Matriarchy and Patriarchy. It is not about "Ideology" - It is about familiar identity..about tradition and personal and private value systems. A family is like a sovereign nation. Each nation on earth started off as one family or tribe.
Amen to that. It is our own responsibility to raise up our children in the way that they should go. Government, keep your hands off of our kids.
Amen to that. It is our own responsibility to raise up our children in the way that they should go. Government, keep your hands off of our kids.
Once the family is crippled by Government- eventually the nation falls. If America wants to survive they had better start giving the respect back to the nuclear family that they have damaged...Liberals will hate this...so what...BUT- A woman belongs to the man....a man belongs to the woman- They are each others private property.. The children that they produce through their bodies -energy - intelligence and effort...are THEIR property.
My ideology through example is that two people- a man and a woman who create children are partaking in the optimum and most valuable way of human living...Don't want or need or be forced to except the values of others that are NOT valuable in my own eyes.. I believe that natural and traditional unions between males and females are of more value than say....and I will use the typical example- Than same sex unions...it does not make my kids or myself haters for believing that OUR way is better- It is our freedom of CHOICE...to choose and keep OUR ideology.
If you do not have the right to think what you want and guide your children in your OWN ideology...life is not worth living...What's the point in having kids if their minds and souls are stolen- It's like - What is the point of working if someone is going to steal your pay check after all your efforts?
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