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Old 09-18-2012, 06:18 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,883 posts, read 71,327,094 times
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Why would I want my son to struggle when his "job" during college was to succeed?

Not everyone can provide as much as we have for our children. And I also know parents who COULD do more but for whatever reasons, chose not to (which is to a large extent what I grew up with - parents who withheld the financial support when I desperately needed it out of some misguided belief that it would benefit me to go hungry and work 3 jobs, lol). But I digress.

My son (and my stepchildren) knew they were expected to succeed and we would give them all the support possible to make that a feasible goal. That included making sure they had a social life, so if sending them $$ to join their friends for ski weekends or trips to the beach, etc, means they were "spoiled," oh well. Whatever we did, it worked, b/c they all have done quite well.

I only wish I would have had money to give each of them for a down payment on a house.
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Nesconset, NY
2,202 posts, read 3,909,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepwater88 View Post



I don't mean to sound judgmental or for this to come off as a loaded question, rather im genuinely curious and i admit im a bit jealous! I have a couple good friends who's parents are mostly doctors ranging the gamut from psychiatrists to surgeons. Anyhow these parents paid/pay almost all of the bills in college including rent, cell phone, meal plan, car insurance/gas, a good portion of their tuition, etc and also sometimes even give them "spending money" to do fun things such as ski trips, impromptu shopping trips in bigger cities, amusement parks,etc. Some have part time jobs but the $ usually goes to alcohol, and, more shopping. I have trouble grasping this lifestyle maybe because i was raised in a working/lower middle class family where it would be nearly unthinkable to ask my daddy for shopping money as 20 something years old. It also goes deeper than finances-a lot of these friends dont really know how to deal with landlords, financial aid officers, professors,etc and will just hand the phone to their parents. I admit I am a little envious as I grew up with parents who advocate self sufficiency and subscribe to the school of thought that once you're an adult, you should for the most part be pulling your own weight. I tell my friends this and they always seem to pity which is embarrassing and think my parents seem cold. So I beg to ask why do so many parents give their adult children a free ride to college and then often continue financing them WELL beyond college? It is about control? Fear? Guilt? Just wondering how they think these "kids" will ever learn to navigate the world or do you plan on supporting them forever?
The above tends to be more characteristic of the "anxious" lower to middle Middle Class as these are the people who have to work for a living (as doctors, psychiatrists, etc.). The Upper Middle Class and Wealthy tend not to work unless they want to do so and they tend to be very tight with their money even when it comes to their children...despite the impression given by Hollywood movies.

Children of the Upper Middle Class and Wealthy don't have landlords (for very long if they do at all) and learn self-sufficiency at a very early age since they will either come to manage the family fortune or be expected to make their own.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:07 AM
 
17,047 posts, read 20,291,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIGuy1202 View Post
The above tends to be more characteristic of the "anxious" lower to middle Middle Class as these are the people who have to work for a living (as doctors, psychiatrists, etc.). The Upper Middle Class and Wealthy tend not to work unless they want to do so and they tend to be very tight with their money even when it comes to their children...despite the impression given by Hollywood movies.

Children of the Upper Middle Class and Wealthy don't have landlords (for very long if they do at all) and learn self-sufficiency at a very early age since they will either come to manage the family fortune or be expected to make their own.
Millionaire Parents: Kids Are Not Fit For Inheritence - U.S. Business News - CNBC

Quote:
A new study from U.S. Trust says that only half of millionaire baby boomers think it’s important to leave money to their kids. A third of them said they would rather leave the money to charity rather than their kids.
Quote:
In the same survey last year, U.S. Trust found that half of multi-millionaire respondents said their children wouldn’t reach a level of financial maturity to handle the family money until they are at least 35 years old.

Whose fault is all this? The parents, in part. Only half of the respondents had told their children about their family wealth. When asked why, they said the children would become lazy, make poor decisions, squander money or fall prey to golddiggers.

We can call it the Rinehart Paradox. Wealthy parents aren’t raising kids to be good with wealth, so they refuse to leave them wealth.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:53 AM
 
4,043 posts, read 6,824,635 times
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2 cents, I anticipate unpopular.

I remember reading a very good article in the NY Times recently called "The Busy Trap". Among others, the author wrote this line: "People forgot that God intended work as a punishment, not as a virtue".

So why do parents who can afford to help their children and spare them of some (or all!) toil, do it?
Because they can, because they want to, and because despite all of humanity's lip service to how wonderful and noble it is to toil...toiling is neither wonderful nor noble. It just has to be done so we won't "check out" sooner than needed.
If toiling was truly desirable, all rich, privileged people would throw their wealth and privileges away and they would...toil. As in regularly, every day, come H or H water, sick if need be (like many of us work) - not as in "charity, when the spirit moves me".

If they were truly convinced that starting with zero in life and having no safety-net is a wonderful advantage to hand out to one's child, there would be no such thing as inheritance. After all, we all want the best for our children, right? From all well-off people who pass down advantages to their offspring (which would be pretty much all), can they all be so unwise and misguided to make the wrong choice?

The trick is most of us CAN'T give the best to our children. When "the best" is not available, a "swim or sink" training will do; after all, a kid without handed-down wealth will HAVE TO swim, it's about survival.

It is true that wealth can be lost - so then you would presumably have a child who doesn't know how to swim without props; but in reality 1) wealth and privileges are rarely lost to the point where the child would starve 2) privileges often come in the form of education and networking...which would work just fine if the material advantages were somehow lost.

It's part of that "life is not fair" thing - and no, I am not judging you for being "a bit jealous".
We all are - but some of us are more frank about it than others.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleur66 View Post
So you are talking about a small portion of kids from wealthy parents then. In your OP you used the example of kids who had physicians for parents...those really aren't trust fund babies.

Struggling doesn't automatically build character or help someone make better financial choices. I used to work a job years ago that due to the low wage most of us would get hefty tax refunds. You'd be surprised how fast these would disappear on frivolous things...these people weren't at all trying to budget. A lot of these same people would go out and get fast food lunches almost daily.

One more thing about wealth. If one has parents who have had some financial success, chances are they've heard their parents talk about the stock market, rental properties, pros and cons of various investments, ins and outs of mortgages, etc....that can be very instructional in itself.

What you are proposing in the OP is something that suggests these groups of people would be flip flopping in status in every generation...which isn't the case, for the most part.
Pysicians are people who work for a living. That hardly qualifies them as "upper class".
Any work that needs to be done daily, under pressure, with continuity, commitments, standards, career imperatives, etc. can easily turn into toil. They may be people nicely compensated for their toil - but they still toil. Incidentally, physicians, like lawyers, have become famous for their relatively poor money management skills. Many tend to be spenders, not investors - just like most people coming from middle class or lower backgrounds are, and who are the first generation to have "made it" via some kind of nicely compensated career.

If you really want to talk "upper", talk about those who will never have to lift a finger to maintain a very prosperous lifestyle. They "work" when the spirit moves them. The spirit sometimes does move them because they have psychological needs too, one of them being to acquire a minimum sense of self-worth, as imposed by the values of the "industrious, market man". These values are prevalent in modern society, so poor "uppers" often feel pressured to at least masquerade some attempts to "work", so they can prove their self-worth.

In reality, the self is just as worthy or unworthy, whether you work or not.
Those who do not have to work are simply lucky.

In the large scheme of things, the individual matters much less than we think he does.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:32 PM
 
32,524 posts, read 33,846,696 times
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Originally Posted by syracusa View Post

If you really want to talk "upper", talk about those who will never have to lift a finger to maintain a very prosperous lifestyle. They "work" when the spirit moves them.
Is that so? Interesting. I know some truly wealthy people. Mega bucks. They all work. (Except the older ones who are retired and they keep busy with charity work and their families.)

I'd better alert them to the fact that they're doing it wrong and let them know they're supposed to be at home telling the maid how to dust.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:36 PM
 
652 posts, read 979,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
Pysicians are people who work for a living. That hardly qualifies them as "upper class".
Any work that needs to be done daily, under pressure, with continuity, commitments, standards, career imperatives, etc. can easily turn into toil. They may be people nicely compensated for their toil - but they still toil. Incidentally, physicians, like lawyers, have become famous for their relatively poor money management skills. Many tend to be spenders, not investors - just like most people coming from middle class or lower backgrounds are, and who are the first generation to have "made it" via some kind of nicely compensated career.

If you really want to talk "upper", talk about those who will never have to lift a finger to maintain a very prosperous lifestyle. They "work" when the spirit moves them. The spirit sometimes does move them because they have psychological needs too, one of them being to acquire a minimum sense of self-worth, as imposed by the values of the "industrious, market man". These values are prevalent in modern society, so poor "uppers" often feel pressured to at least masquerade some attempts to "work", so they can prove their self-worth.

In reality, the self is just as worthy or unworthy, whether you work or not.
Those who do not have to work are simply lucky.

In the large scheme of things, the individual matters much less than we think he does.

I don't think I used the word upper class to describe them, but the ones I know certainly fall into the upper middle class category which is what OP used. I live in a university town with a medical school. There is certainly a range of salaries but some are doing quite well. Many times physicians are married to other physicians. Sure I'm certain there are some that don't manage money well, but I can think of examples that would suggest otherwise.


I don't agree that upper is associated with every time someone who doesn't have to do much to maintain a prosperous lifestyle...that might be true for some upper class people, but not all.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:51 PM
 
571 posts, read 1,096,981 times
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There are some very skewed ideas on here as to what's successful. So far, I'm reading money, money, money - some even going so far as to say those who don't have to work are "lucky".

I have a couple of friends who spoil their kids emotionally as well as financially. One mom refuses to allow her kids to wash dishes because she says she enjoys spoiling them and it's her job.

When we rob our kids of the opportunity to feel like contributing members of society (whether it's at home or in our community) we rob them of developing a healthy self-worth and self-satisfaction. We wonder why so many of these young adults suffer from depression and find happiness so elusive. With all these years of control, perhaps think they can feel "happiness" for their kids, too.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:17 PM
 
652 posts, read 979,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelcake4 View Post
There are some very skewed ideas on here as to what's successful. So far, I'm reading money, money, money - some even going so far as to say those who don't have to work are "lucky".

I have a couple of friends who spoil their kids emotionally as well as financially. One mom refuses to allow her kids to wash dishes because she says she enjoys spoiling them and it's her job.

When we rob our kids of the opportunity to feel like contributing members of society (whether it's at home or in our community) we rob them of developing a healthy self-worth and self-satisfaction. We wonder why so many of these young adults suffer from depression and find happiness so elusive. With all these years of control, perhaps think they can feel "happiness" for their kids, too.
Of course financial success is only one element of being successful.

However there are plenty of parents who come from non-wealthy backgrounds that haven't insisted their kids wash dishes etc. I don't think coddling in other forms is reserved for those who aren't wealthy.

When you talk about "robbing" kids of opportunities, what sort of parents are you talking about? Any sort of parent can do that. Kids who have parents who have never shown a good work ethic are robbed in a different way.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:51 PM
 
567 posts, read 927,843 times
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I am so glad my mom made me get a job when I was 15.5 years old. I had to get a worker's permit before I could start working. Now at 27, I haven't been without a job since. Parent's paid for my first semester of college and I paid for the rest.

My parent's didn't have a lot of money but did the best they could. They gave me a very happy childhood and I believe a lot of my success today comes from my parents.
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