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BS and fraud based on scientific research? Like I said, this is not mere science that we're talking about. Some people want to be ungay. Should they be *banned* from seeking out the therapists who are on board with their views?
BS and fraud based on scientific evaluations finding that the product they are selling does not achieve the goals they claim and causes specific harm to boot. What else would that be called but BS and fraud? I keep asking about other treatments with no support for other reasons to seek treatment exactly to take the sexual orientation element out of it. I want to be a fairy princess - should I be able to find a therapist who is on board with my views? If your answer to that is yes, that's fine. As I mentioned earlier, I have mixed feelings about the government protecting us from our own stupidity (e.g., pursuing ineffective or harmful treatment, not the belief behind it).
Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 10-04-2012 at 09:29 AM..
Jaymax- Many sincere thanks for your thoughtful and informative post. I know it took some time to put it together and those of us who read every link are so much more armed with real facts.
the trouble is people so hell bent in their religious anti-gay mindset will not read the research and even if they did it would not bring about thoughtful change. they blindly follow what their church and other bigots tell them.
The level of absurdity of the theory that gays are the result of molestation, that professionals are trying to recruit gays, that gay can be taught by anybody is so extreme it defies logic. That is the whole point. These closed minded people do not want to listen to facts and logic. But I admire your attempts to help.
You are welcome. It doesn't actually take that much time as I'm well used to debunking the same old propaganda over and over on this topic. Anti-gay websites often have the same articles, so it's usually the same old BS. It makes it a lot easier that I have easy access to the original studies.
Jaymax- Many sincere thanks for your thoughtful and informative post. I know it took some time to put it together and those of us who read every link are so much more armed with real facts.
the trouble is people so hell bent in their religious anti-gay mindset will not read the research and even if they did it would not bring about thoughtful change. they blindly follow what their church and other bigots tell them.
The level of absurdity of the theory that gays are the result of molestation, that professionals are trying to recruit gays, that gay can be taught by anybody is so extreme it defies logic. That is the whole point. These closed minded people do not want to listen to facts and logic. But I admire your attempts to help.
I respect what Jaymax is saying but I do not agree with everything Jaymax is saying. Does that mean that I have a "religious anti-gay mindset"? No it does not. Far from it. I am religious but in a "thou shalt not judge" sort of way. Not in a "my way or the highway" sort of way.
It simply means that I respect the rights of others to disregard Jaymax's facts and follow their own hearts when it comes to their *own* lives.
Last edited by springfieldva; 10-04-2012 at 09:34 AM..
For those that "wow" my opinions on homosexuality/government keeping their noses of my values: Homosexuality and Mental Health Problems It is a mental health condition and if not for the shouting down at the mental health conventions, it probably still would be considered one. Also, do a little research on "Sex Before 8 Or It Is Too Late" and the ever decreasing age of sexual consent. I do my own research and I used to believe that you can't help who you love but my gosh..................much more complicated than that. Actually, I have a son with DS who looks like he is about 10 but is an adult and horrible things were happening at the day center to the younger males, "conversion therapy" in my opinion at the hands of those looking for........................don't talk to me about "rights" or "discrimination". Know the facts!
BS and fraud based on scientific research? Like I said, this is not mere science that we're talking about. Some people want to be ungay. Should they be *banned* from seeking out the therapists who are on board with their views?
I'm confused with your question. How is anyone 'banning people from seeking out therapists who are onboard with their views'? It's the specific type of therapy that has been 'banned' for use with minors.
The legislation does include that these 'therapists' are required to gain 'informed consent' from adults who want to pursue this BS 'therapy'. The therapists are required to give honest evidence-based information about this 'therapy' and evidence-based information from the major health organizations on the risk of harm. Something they should have been doing all along if they had any integrity.
Why would anyone have a problem with therapists being required to be honest and have integrity?
Some people want to be 'unshort'. Would you support therapists being allowed to tell these clients that they can grow them another 6 inches?
No one is saying someone who wants to disavow their same-sex attractions can't do that. It's not about freedom of religion, either. People can believe in whatever they want and seek whatever support they care to for any position within their religious organization. Nor is it about therapists telling a client that he/she must idenitfy as gay. It IS about not allowing therapists who are regulated and licensed by the state to say they can provide a treatment that does not do what they claim, that has also been proven to cause harm. I've asked a few times - do you think that people should have the option to use tarot card reading or crystal therapy to treat medical ailments, despite no evidence that it works? If a client truly believes he is Napoleon, does the therapist have an obligation to work with him to take over France so as not to disrespect his belief? I get what you are saying about not imposing one's values on others, but at what point are there ramifications for selling a product that is BS and fraud?
BS and fraud based on scientific evaluations finding that the product they are selling does not achieve the goals they claim and causes specific harm to boot. What else would that be called but BS and fraud? I keep asking about other treatments with no support for other reasons to seek treatment exactly to take the sexual orientation element out of it. I want to be a fairy princess - should I be able to find a therapist who is on board with my views? If your answer to that is yes, that's fine. As I mentioned earlier, I have mixed feelings about the government protecting us from our own stupidity (e.g., pursuing ineffective or harmful treatment, not the belief behind it).
How about another analogy?
If a teenager goes to a state licensed therapist and tells them they want to be Superman, should the therpist be allowed to give the teen a cape and say "Sure kid! Now jump off the Empire State building and show me how you can fly"
For those that "wow" my opinions on homosexuality/government keeping their noses of my values: Homosexuality and Mental Health Problems It is a mental health condition and if not for the shouting down at the mental health conventions, it probably still would be considered one. Also, do a little research on "Sex Before 8 Or It Is Too Late" and the ever decreasing age of sexual consent. I do my own research and I used to believe that you can't help who you love but my gosh..................much more complicated than that. Actually, I have a son with DS who looks like he is about 10 but is an adult and horrible things were happening at the day center to the younger males, "conversion therapy" in my opinion at the hands of those looking for........................don't talk to me about "rights" or "discrimination". Know the facts!
I respect what Jaymax is saying but I do not agree with everything Jaymax is saying. Does that mean that I have a "religious anti-gay mindset"? No it does not. Far from it. I am religious but in a "thou shalt not judge" sort of way. Not in a "my way or the highway" sort of way.
It simply means that I respect the rights of others to disregard Jaymax's facts and follow their own hearts when it comes to their *own* lives.
I'm a 'she' if it makes it any easier.
No-one is saying that people can't 'disregard facts' and 'follow their own hearts when it comes to their own lives.'
If they want to try to 'pretend' to be 'ungay' because of their religious beliefs, no-one is stopping them.
I'm confused with your question. How is anyone 'banning people from seeking out therapists who are onboard with their views'? It's the specific type of therapy that has been 'banned' for use with minors.
The legislation does include that these 'therapists' are required to gain 'informed consent' from adults who want to pursue this BS 'therapy'. The therapists are required to give honest evidence-based information about this 'therapy' and evidence-based information from the major health organizations on the risk of harm. Something they should have been doing all along if they had any integrity.
Why would anyone have a problem with therapists being required to be honest and have integrity?
Some people want to be 'unshort'. Would you support therapists being allowed to tell these clients that they can grow them another 6 inches?
1) There is a tremendous difference between a purely physical trait like height and a complex internal/emotional trait like sexuality. One can be scientifically measured with a ruler, the other can not.
2) I believe that informed teens should not be *banned* from seeking therapists who are on board with their views. Teens aren't stupid, many know what they want and I think it's misguided and probably harmful to protect them from themselves like this with these types of bans. .
3) I think that if you want others to respect your thoughts, your views, your freedom to live your life than you need to do them the same courtesy.
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