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You could have just said that, despite your words, you really don't agree with NJGoat that "Every 'wrong' can be situationally justified to be a 'right'".
By the way, many societies function quite well where the rape of girls is legitimized. As for murder, it was the central legitimate act of ancient civilizations - from the cruel arenas of Rome to the sacrificial altars of Mesoamerica. So I don't think "the idea of moral codes being based on societies functioning" does anything to prevent the moral evils you presumably condemn.
Haha, or I could have said "Despite your trying to twist the words I wrote to say something I did not intend, that is not actually what I said if you look at the context" but I was going for giving you the benefit of the doubt that I was not entirely clear and somehow you misconstrued.
Technically speaking - Romans persecuting Christians in the arena and human sacrifice in the name of religion would not be considered murder, I believe as conceptualized in the context of the time, they were considered corporal punishment and religious sacrifice, respectively. Indeed, a woman's right not be raped or to be a second class citizen seem to be a human rights issue in quite a lot of places. I will have to come up with more specific language to convey my point, but unfortunately, now is not that time. I have some parenting to do.
Is there some reason why you said "I cannot think of a circumstance ..." rather than "there are no circumstances whatsoever ..."?
Just because I cannot conceive of a situation off of the top of my head does not mean that I am willing to say there are no circumstances ever - I am doubtful that there are circumstances ever, however, it is typically prudent to leave some room for things one may not have considered, none of us being omniscient and all.
I am far from sinless, and am not casting any stones. In no way does the Bible equate "making moral judgments" with "casting stones". Even Jesus told the adulterous woman "Go and sin no more".
Go back and read your posts, specifically the vitriol directed against those in general who do not share your view. Then re-evaluate the "stone casting".
Go back and read your posts, specifically the vitriol directed against those in general who do not share your view. Then re-evaluate the "stone casting".
I don't think it matters to him Goat. He sees himself as having the moral high ground. He (and his segment of the Catholic Church) are convinced they are right. The rest of the world (all of us) are wrong. We deserve his vitriol. He's entitled to vitriol because he's got The Church behind him. (Or so he thinks.) He's made it obvious he sees himself as the moral voice of authority correcting other parents. He's not casting stones. He's swooping in (on behalf of the Church) to save civilization from the evils of rock and roll.
And, apparently, snuff films. (Which I don't think I've heard a reference to in 10 years. Funny that they popped into one of his posts about the evils of society.)
I am struck by how joy-less his life must be. And for his children. There's been a lot of saying what is evil. But not a word about what is fun and good. And when a child sitting on a curb enjoying a parade is deemed wrong.... wow. I am left wondering how much happiness there can be in a life that says "EVIL!" to that and keeps their children away from.... a parade. A nice, home-town parade with flags and floats. Where's the joy in a life that says "NO!" to parades?
Technically speaking - Romans persecuting Christians in the arena and human sacrifice in the name of religion would not be considered murder, I believe as conceptualized in the context of the time, they were considered corporal punishment and religious sacrifice, respectively.
Now I'm really confused.
If these examples aren't examples of murder, then your statement "nor can I think of a circumstance under which murdering a child could be situationally justified to be right" doesn't apply to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain
Just because I cannot conceive of a situation off of the top of my head does not mean that I am willing to say there are no circumstances ever - I am doubtful that there are circumstances ever, however, it is typically prudent to leave some room for things one may not have considered, none of us being omniscient and all.
So, you believe, after all, that there may be circumstances in which raping and strangling a child is justified? You're on the fence about it, unable to condemn raping and strangling a child as intrinsically wrong in every case?
Why do I feel like you're Lucy and I'm Linus trying to kick a football?
If these examples aren't examples of murder, then your statement "nor can I think of a circumstance under which murdering a child could be situationally justified to be right" doesn't apply to them.
So, you believe, after all, that there may be circumstances in which raping and strangling a child is justified? You're on the fence about it, unable to condemn it as intrinsically wrong in every case?
Why do I feel like you're Lucy and I'm Linus trying to kick a football?
Yes, you do appear to be confused.
No, I am not on the fence, I pretty clearly stated that I am not omniscient, something everyone should be able to say about themselves if they are being honest. This would be more interesting a conversation if you would stop with the "gotchas" from focusing on details out of context and look at the gist. I understand you are building up to all morality derives from God, from murder to a pop song. Let's cut to the chase: I do not agree with you.
I get that you don't agree with me. But I still don't know where you're coming from.
I am not sure what the specific confusion is, I will try to clarify if you give me something direct to work with instead of trying to guess at hidden meanings behind my words. I wish I could just defend moral relativism or defend moral absolutism, but neither of those is what I believe.
Would it help you to know in general I hold a dialectical orientation towards most things in life? In oversimplified summary, that two opposite truths can exist at the same moment in dialectical opposition, be resolved into a synthesis, which in turn creates a new thesis and antithesis that exist in dialectical opposition to each other. Might clear up some confusion with my use of language?
Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 10-19-2012 at 02:15 PM..
I, personally, me, cannot justify such an act based on my own morals and values. However, a Tutsi militia fighter could very well justify raping and strangling a Hutu child for the simple fact that they were a Hutu and all Hutu are "evil". To other Tutsi militia fighters this act would be seen as morally correct and acceptable, even celebrated, hence making it "right" to Tutsi militia fighters.
I appreciate the clarity. Kudos for a noble attempt at consistency.
Who are we to judge the Tutsis? Live and let live, eh?
I am struck by how joy-less his life must be. And for his children. There's been a lot of saying what is evil. But not a word about what is fun and good. And when a child sitting on a curb enjoying a parade is deemed wrong.... wow. I am left wondering how much happiness there can be in a life that says "EVIL!" to that and keeps their children away from.... a parade. A nice, home-town parade with flags and floats. Where's the joy in a life that says "NO!" to parades?
Maybe the OP will tell us.
I foresee major rebellion from the kids once they realize how oppressive their lives are.
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