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I can actually agree with you that people who report suspected abuse of any kind should be off the hook. I think the employees were being asinine to jump to that conclusion, but I wouldn't agree with legal consequences.
However, everything that happened AFTER the pictures being reported does deserve legal consequences. There is a complete lack of common sense and accountability in our legal system and in the CPS in particular. These parents and their children suffered because a number of trained professionals failed to use any discretion or common sense.
This is the flip side to the many recent cases of kids being suspended for gun shaped pastry or army men on cupcakes at school. There are no longer shades of grey...an army men with a rifle is treated as if it were an actual gun. An innocent naked picture of a toddler is treated the same as porn. It's like our society has collectively lost all ability to understand nuance or situational awareness. I honestly believe it's a form of collective insanity.
Agree ^^^. Walmart employees reported as it's their duty. The fault lies in the authorities that let the process started as child porn.
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Originally Posted by purehuman
I agree with everything you've said...pretty pathetic when the judges side with walmart.
Walmart is not at fault. They are suing Walmart because has the deepest pockets, but Walmart did nothing wrong. They are required to report and they did. The police, CPS and everybody else that is supposedly trained to spot child porn failed and are the ones to blame.
Merjolie8...I beg to differ...it was walmarts employees that caused the "problem" to begin with. Maybe they should instruct their employees better about what is considered porn, and what isn't. If they have incompetent workers with no common sense working for them (walmart), then they (walmart) should have to pay the price....You say they are "required to report what they did"....who decides what is reportable or what isn't?,,,and if it's the employees working in the store, who's responsible for them?
Merjolie8...I beg to differ...it was walmarts employees that caused the "problem" to begin with. Maybe they should instruct their employees better about what is considered porn, and what isn't. If they have incompetent workers with no common sense working for them (walmart), then they (walmart) should have to pay the price....You say they are "required to report what they did"....who decides what is reportable or what isn't?,,,and if it's the employees working in the store, who's responsible for them?
Do you REALLY want a clerk deciding what is porn and what is not?
Standard retail policy is to report all child nudity that exposes genitalia, period.
It takes all the guesswork out of it for the clerks because they are not trained to make those kind of decisions, nor should they be. It's far simpler to simply tell them to report everything that meets certain criteria and leave those kinds of decisions to other people who supposedly have been trained.
If the shoe had been on the other foot and some perv was busted for developing kiddie porn at Walmart I bet people would be pretty quick to start screaming that the clerks were irresponsible and stupid for NOT reporting the very same type of nudity. Can't have it both ways.
Do you REALLY want a clerk deciding what is porn and what is not?
Standard retail policy is to report all child nudity that exposes genitalia, period.
It takes all the guesswork out of it for the clerks because they are not trained to make those kind of decisions, nor should they be. It's far simpler to simply tell them to report everything that meets certain criteria and leave those kinds of decisions to other people who supposedly have been trained.
If the shoe had been on the other foot and some perv was busted for developing kiddie porn at Walmart I bet people would be pretty quick to start screaming that the clerks were irresponsible and stupid for NOT reporting the very same type of nudity. Can't have it both ways.
This.
I hate walmart and will not shop there. That being said, store clerks are not mandatory reporters. They do not get the mandated training to recognize what is or is not abuse, and have to be given a standard that is able to be universally applied. Where the fault lies is the social services system whose personnel (who have professional training in determining what is or is not child abuse) who did not immediately recognize the situation, and return the children to their parents, no harm no foul.
Maybe they were understaffed, over worked, etc. but a good social worker would have been able to see this was not a case of child abuse with a degree of certainty that a minimum wage employee with no training beyond how to work the picture machine would not have.
I cannot imagine the psychological damage the adults in charge caused these children simply by just removing them from mom and dad for how long? weeks? Really?!
Then thinking about how the kids were "examined" - again - irreparable damage to a growing child.
All for some bath photos?
It was obvious this was going to end up in court and I hope they get a TON of money. Part of it is going to be spent on the kids weekly visits to a Dr. who has to try and help them get over the fact that they were ripped from their family for no good reason at all.
I cannot imagine the psychological damage the adults in charge caused these children simply by just removing them from mom and dad for how long? weeks? Really?!
Then thinking about how the kids were "examined" - again - irreparable damage to a growing child.
All for some bath photos?
It was obvious this was going to end up in court and I hope they get a TON of money. Part of it is going to be spent on the kids weekly visits to a Dr. who has to try and help them get over the fact that they were ripped from their family for no good reason at all.
Eh, slow your roll there...
Just having a medical examination, even one that would involve checking for signs of abuse is not traumatic for a well adjusted child.
Aside from that, yes, the system failed here. It happens, and the lessons that need to be learned are not about what triggered the call from walmart but rather why the professionals were unable to immediately rectify this situation.
Blaming walmart just makes it easy to ignore the real issues and that is likely drastic understaffing and overwhelming case loads of childrens services social workers.
DubbleT set me straight about store policy (any exposed genitalia must be reported), I think it should be posted at the photo department where it can easily be seen...maybe then (if you know there might be a picture of your little ones in the bath) you can go elsewhere.,,,lkb0714, I disagree that a medical exam would not be truamatizing to a child, it absolutely would, for any child, well adjusted or not.
DubbleT set me straight about store policy (any exposed genitalia must be reported), I think it should be posted at the photo department where it can easily be seen...maybe then (if you know there might be a picture of your little ones in the bath) you can go elsewhere.,,,lkb0714, I disagree that a medical exam would not be truamatizing to a child, it absolutely would, for any child, well adjusted or not.
A medical exam isn't necessarily going to be traumatising for a child. My daughter had to have a sexual abuse examination and she was ok with it, the examinations aren't the same for young children as they are for adults.
Film processors in many states and within many companies are mandatory reporters. If they don't report they are breaking the law.
This. ^^
This is not a "Walmart policy." This is our laws at work.
I'm a photographer. I've had many clients who wanted me to photograph their infants or young toddlers naked. It used to be done routinely -- naked baby on a blanket, etc. -- not with genitals showing but with a bare butt. I have to refuse. My wife and daughter wanted me to shoot some pictures of our grandkids in the bathtub a few years ago. Again, I had to refuse. They thought I was being dumb, but it's exactly what gets photographers (professional or amateur) into deep doo-doo.
Some have suggested that the laws kick in when genitals are shown. No, no, no! That's NOT true from my understanding. Naked photos of kids must be reported to authorities, period. Walmart had no choice but to report them.
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