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Old 06-11-2013, 11:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Huh?



Whether or not suicide clusters should be referred to as a Contagion are strongly debated within the mental health community.
Regardless it is not a contagion they are "exposed to" through the school. Unless the suicide occurs at the school. If you really want to embrace the contagion theory, than the school should minimize all acknowledgement of the suicide.

Again, abdicating parental responsibility is a MISTAKE and making up for it is NOT the school's responsibility. If you have waited to talk about suicide until someone kills themselves IT IS TOO LATE.

Every public school out there all ready has suicide awareness campaigns every year. Notifying parents of the suicide of school mate is a violation of the privacy of the family of the victim for NO REASON except so parents don't have to talk to their kids about suicide until its too late.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,977 posts, read 12,574,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Regardless it is not a contagion they are "exposed to" through the school. Unless the suicide occurs at the school. If you really want to embrace the contagion theory, than the school should minimize all acknowledgement of the suicide.

Again, abdicating parental responsibility is a MISTAKE and making up for it is NOT the school's responsibility. If you have waited to talk about suicide until someone kills themselves IT IS TOO LATE.

Every public school out there all ready has suicide awareness campaigns every year. Notifying parents of the suicide of school mate is a violation of the privacy of the family of the victim for NO REASON except so parents don't have to talk to their kids about suicide until its too late.
Sorry, but you don't get to determine whether or not it is a "contagion". If experts in the field can't agree, it's not something that should be dismissed casually.

Wow, well your interpretation of the intent of this thread is a full 180 degrees from mine. I see nothing about abdicating parental responsibility and plenty about disseminating information so that parents can further discuss this issue with their children. I completely disagree with your assertion that the only reason to share the information lets the parent off the hook. Certainly some parents prefer not to discuss difficult topics with their children, not much one can do about them, but the obvious point of this thread was to inform parents that they should speak to their children about these particular incidents.
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:00 PM
 
14,330 posts, read 10,697,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Regardless it is not a contagion they are "exposed to" through the school. Unless the suicide occurs at the school. If you really want to embrace the contagion theory, than the school should minimize all acknowledgement of the suicide.

Again, abdicating parental responsibility is a MISTAKE and making up for it is NOT the school's responsibility. If you have waited to talk about suicide until someone kills themselves IT IS TOO LATE.
That was my concern reading the post about how many people are going to know to talk to their suicidal child if they have no idea that someone else has committed suicide. That was sort of baffling. By the time the parent finds out that their kid is suicidal, they have missed some things along the way and ought to be asking themselves how. Do you know whether or not your child is being bullied? Is a bully? Suffering from peer pressure? Sexual pressure? Alienation? Gender identity confusion? .... Whatever.

While I agree that the social, physiological and physical changes going on in adolescence are hard, every person still has their basic animal instincts, one of which is to survive. They must be in a pretty bad place if they make it to the desire to kill themselves.

I am trying to think about it from their point of view, and it is not that hard for me. If I felt suicidal urges, would I go to my mother for help? Hell. No. A counselor from school? Double no because they would be required to tell ... my... MOTHER. I was subject to and engaged in some pretty dangerous things, none of which were me being BAD. Only that which I did not know how to deal. But in need of punishment, guilt and shame is all she'd have seen as evidenced by the many years leading up to teen aged hood.

This story is not to shed some light on my poor horrible upbringing. I actually had a terrific upbringing. My mom was not an awful Mommie Dearest monster. She was misguided. She believed, like we see on this board all the time, in punishment and fear to achieve the desired momentary behavior, never thinking of the long term cost.

So yah, if you are trying to derail the train that has already arrived at the station and thinking that a warning as it pulled in was going to suffice, I think that is not going to work well. The cost to the school, to the other families is just not right.
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:55 PM
 
13,354 posts, read 21,484,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
T
So yah, if you are trying to derail the train that has already arrived at the station and thinking that a warning as it pulled in was going to suffice, I think that is not going to work well. The cost to the school, to the other families is just not right.
The intent is to stop the next derailment. It has crossed my mind that the school administration is not at all eager to have this information broadcast. It would involve some soul-searching on their part, and possibly some hard questions directed at the principal.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
The intent is to stop the next derailment.
That's my point. What you are suggesting is pretty damned late at the point you are suggesting.

Quote:
It has crossed my mind that the school administration is not at all eager to have this information broadcast. It would involve some soul-searching on their part, and possibly some hard questions directed at the principal.

That is another matter completely, of course. The fact of suicides justifies and assumption of responsibility on the school's part any more than the parents. You seem to reject the latter out of hand. But this "It would involve some soul-searching on their part, and possibly some hard questions directed at the principal" makes it sound like the former not so much.

I think there is a whole lot more to the motives in this discussion than simply derailing suicidal trains careening into stations.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:04 PM
 
16,833 posts, read 14,641,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
The intent is to stop the next derailment. It has crossed my mind that the school administration is not at all eager to have this information broadcast. It would involve some soul-searching on their part, and possibly some hard questions directed at the principal.
Great now its the schools FAULT?

Ugh, talk about a total abdication of parental responsibility!

The reason not to "broadcast" this information is two fold. First, the rights of a minor and their family. You keep ignoring that small, legally important fact. Second, most experts recommend not "broadcasting" information as it can be seen to glamorize suicide through the attention the victims receive.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:07 PM
 
14,330 posts, read 10,697,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Great now its the schools FAULT?

Ugh, talk about a total abdication of parental responsibility!

The reason not to "broadcast" this information is two fold. First, the rights of a minor and their family. You keep ignoring that small, legally important fact. Second, most experts recommend not "broadcasting" information as it can be seen to glamorize suicide through the attention the victims receive.
The truth is when something like this happens in ones community, people get scared. This can happen HERE? This could happen to me/us! (Yes) Something needs to be DONE! Who is in charge here?

...


My big question in all of this is if parents have no means of knowing what is going on with their kids at the school, how is it that this poster knows? And why does she think others don't as well?
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:08 PM
 
16,833 posts, read 14,641,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Sorry, but you don't get to determine whether or not it is a "contagion". If experts in the field can't agree, it's not something that should be dismissed casually.
I never said I did. But as YOU pointed out there is NO CONCENSUS. Until there is a consensus from the experts we cannot violate the rights of victims and their families.


Quote:
Wow, well your interpretation of the intent of this thread is a full 180 degrees from mine. I see nothing about abdicating parental responsibility and plenty about disseminating information so that parents can further discuss this issue with their children. I completely disagree with your assertion that the only reason to share the information lets the parent off the hook. Certainly some parents prefer not to discuss difficult topics with their children, not much one can do about them, but the obvious point of this thread was to inform parents that they should speak to their children about these particular incidents.
What about the rights of victims and their families to PRIVACY?

Seriously, we are talking (in most cases at least) to MINORS. We cannot release their information for almost anything without parental consent. And if those parents do not consent, for any reason, they have a fundamental right to PRIVACY.

Your desire to know their business does not supercede their rights. Want to talk to your kid about suicide, DON'T WAIT SOMEBODY IS DEAD.

I see this all the time, some parents think their "rights" to "know" something is more important than someone else's privacy. That isn't true. It isn't true about the special ed students in your kids class and it isn't true about the suicide of a classmate.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:09 PM
 
14,330 posts, read 10,697,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I never said I did. But as YOU pointed out there is NO CONCENSUS. Until there is a consensus from the experts we cannot violate the rights of victims and their families.




What about the rights of victims and their families to PRIVACY?

Seriously, we are talking (in most cases at least) to MINORS. We cannot release their information for almost anything without parental consent. And if those parents do not consent, for any reason, they have a fundamental right to PRIVACY.

Your desire to know their business does not supercede their rights. Want to talk to your kid about suicide, DON'T WAIT SOMEBODY IS DEAD.

I see this all the time, parents think their "rights" to "know" something is more important than someone else's privacy. That isn't true. It isn't true about the special ed students in your kids class and it isn't true about the suicide of a classmate.
It may become the legal truth at some point.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:10 PM
 
16,833 posts, read 14,641,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
It may become the legal truth at some point.
And if it does, than I suspect state laws will reflect that change.

Until such a time expecting schools to violate privacy laws relating to minors and their families just so someone doesn't have to talk to their own children is ridiculous.
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