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Let me say as a former 4th grade teacher; when I had a student whose parents had him skip a grade in his first year of school, and he was already on the young side due to his birthday, he was so immature socially and behaviorally that he would have been better off back in 3rd grade. he couldnt sit and focus to attend to the tasks that were required of the 4th graders. While academically he might have been able to do the work, he was not up to the challenge and did not do well. Of course, his parents didnt want to hear it.
I think that the term "gifted" is (or was, anyway) a bit overused.
I agree.
I am also in favor of skipping if/when warranted. I've stated before that a family member skipped a grade. She is studying at Stanford. She is not gifted. She's smart, but not uniquely intelligent. Yet, she skipped a grade.
I have another family member who did not skip a grade. He did not get into Stanford. He is gifted. He's not a genius, but he's gifted.
So there ya go...
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Originally Posted by lkb0714
Yup, exactly. For all any of us know every single one of is lying. Myself included.
I doubt that this particular thread would attract liars. What would be the advantage?
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Originally Posted by lkb0714
...There were a few more than 10 of us in the G/T program for 6,7,and 8. About right for a population of about 230ish students. Maybe it is a regional difference.
Really? This is such a fallacy. You, the scientist, have presented nothing more than your opinion on this subject. Nothing more.
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Originally Posted by lkb0714
I will fully admit that I speculating on what that probability would be.
When I was in elementary school, also 30ish years ago, we were given multiple IQ tests to determine "giftedness" and entrance to the program. There were a few more than 10 of us in the G/T program for 6,7,and 8. About right for a population of about 230ish students. Maybe it is a regional difference.
Right, 'cause us rubes out here in the west couldn't possibly have as large a percentage of gifted as those of you back in Jersey!
You are assuming a normal distribution, there is none. You would have to use a non-parametric. N is for a sample of a normally distributed population.
I obviously don't get it. Can you explain how you would set that up? Maybe we are thinking of the same thing here since I don't think those reporting represent a normal distribution and I was under the impression from earlier that you did.
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People lie on surveys as well. We actually have ways to estimate that bias, and weird ways to correct for it in person (one weird way we learned in grad school involved making them roll dice). Ways that would be equally valid here. We could find the number that would be expected to fib, the number that based on posters visiting thread (not posting) should be gifted, and then compare that to the actual number , do some repetitive math and you get a probability that the number of people here really did skip a grade.
I will fully admit that I speculating on what that probability would be.
It doesn't seem like there is any way to really know one way or another. And there is the one variable that people who don't skip aren't going to report it. That's going to skew the data set in ways I don't understand. Meh, this kind of stuff must drive social scientists batty.
One of my children was skipped. From kindergarten into first grade because he read, knew basic arithmetic, and had a good vocabulary.
He was four going on five and I was against it at the time. The private school that he was attending gave us a choice - skip him, or remove him.
We let them skip him.
Flash forward to now. He's completed his Freshman year of college with two semesters on the Dean's List.
I think, had I "won" this battle, he would have been disliked by his chronological pears for his knowledge and propensity to help.
In first grade, he was a bit less sure of himself and realized that school offered something of a challenge. He made friends and quit his gig as a four year old "TA". Most importantly, he was open to learning.
It worked out for the best.
Sometimes, not always; but sometimes; educators can know more than parents. This was one of those times.
My son was soooo ready. He was already feeling disconnected from the kids in his grade, and he generally socialized with those a bit older than he was anyway. He felt 'different' in his grade because he was more mature as well as being academically advanced.
...
This was my situation. Twice, my grade school suggested to my parents that I skip a grade, and twice my parents, unbeknownst to me, declined to do it. The first time was in the earlier half of grade school, and the second time was the later half of grade school. By my late grade school years I was completely disconnected from my classmates because of our different interests, maturity, and the small set of people with whom to socialize.
My parents opposition was essentially a fixed point of dogma. They had decided this was bad for children (boys in particular), and made their decision without actually observing my actual circumstances. Don't make this decision based on ideology. Observe your child, and discuss what is going on in school over an extended period of time. The response you get from your child one week may be entirely different the next week. Look for a pattern. The social skills you may think your child will miss developing, may not develop if you leave them where the spectrum of people to interact with is too narrow.
I probably made full use of my 4 years of high school, but I could easily have dropped 1 or 2 years of grade school.
That even accounting for response bias the odds of 75% of the respondents in this thread being profoundly gifted is slim. Something on the order of T/p<0.05.
What about the select group of nincompoops like myself who were held back twice?
I think there are parents who push their kids too hard for their own vanity. My brilliant son needed no pushing. But I confess I pushed the other two to emulate his performance. It was the wrong thing to do. They are both in professions they like and doing extremely well.
I really think the best solution is to allow kids to proceed academically at their own pace, but skipping a grade does not usually accomplish that.
I would love grouping kids by ability rather than by age, but in a way that allows them to be with age peers who have similar abilities and interests. We were fortunate in our school system, that kids could work above their grade level within the regular classroom or be cross-teamed for single subjects they were good at. My kids changed rooms for reading and math even in first grade and that seemed to work pretty well. Neither of my kids were profoundly gifted though. Both were advanced in various subjects.
I really think the best solution is to allow kids to proceed academically at their own pace, but skipping a grade does not usually accomplish that.
I would love grouping kids by ability rather than by age, but in a way that allows them to be with age peers who have similar abilities and interests. We were fortunate in our school system, that kids could work above their grade level within the regular classroom or be cross-teamed for single subjects they were good at. My kids changed rooms for reading and math even in first grade and that seemed to work pretty well. Neither of my kids were profoundly gifted though. Both were advanced in various subjects.
That is what my kids' school did as well. Then by middle school, there were many mixed-grade classes.
I really think the best solution is to allow kids to proceed academically at their own pace, but skipping a grade does not usually accomplish that.
I would love grouping kids by ability rather than by age, but in a way that allows them to be with age peers who have similar abilities and interests. We were fortunate in our school system, that kids could work above their grade level within the regular classroom or be cross-teamed for single subjects they were good at. My kids changed rooms for reading and math even in first grade and that seemed to work pretty well. Neither of my kids were profoundly gifted though. Both were advanced in various subjects.
Montessori, and other progressive schools do that, or something very similar to that,within the class room in pre-school and primary classes.
My children attended one of the nations best regarded and highly rated school districts, the Three Village Schools, in Setauket NY. www.threevillagecsd.olg/ , a district that serves a demanding group of parents, from rocket scientists to rock stars, physicians, professors, politicians and well, you get the idea. Their arrangement in grades three through six, is much as you describe, and students had a home teacher, but changed classes for certain subjects in which they excelled or needed extra help.
It was a wonderful arrangement, and they stayed with their peer group and their home teacher.
However, this panacea was available only to people who could afford homes that start at a half million for a 2 or 3 bedroom, with taxes starting at 10K per year for a similar starter house.
This is not a reality for most American public school students whose schools operate on a shoe string budget. In a perfect world that would be wonderful. But it's not a perfect world - or a fair one.
Sometimes "selective advancement" is the answer when a child is truly board and is not being challenged.
And one grade does not exactly put a child "out of his or her peer group". If you closely observe the children that are selected as friends in a neighborhood environment, age is seldom a factor.
Children, when they are free to find friends on their own, tend to find others with their own interests and abilities, including intellectual abilities.
It's rather short sighted to think that all eight year old, for example have a natural affinity for one another. They do not.
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