Boy Scouts would be better with girls (friends, father, kids)

[Oleg Bach]

Sure why not- toss in a few girls and make the scouting thing more natural- Boys can learn to be men by learning to get along and respect females at an early age. Moderator Cut Why not let the real thing enter the organization? Then if you want allow a few gays in...at least there would be balance that way.

[Phoenix2017]

Regarding the OP, I think that a co-ed, multiple-gender "Scouts" makes very logical sense, and in fact should have been implemented long ago.

Having said that, and having been in the Boy Scouts myself when I was much younger, my impression of it after-the-fact was that it is highly overrated, and extremely overhyped. I have always had something of a nagging feeling that it is really actually intended as a means of intentional social conditioning of young males, to promote a certain very specific ideal of masculinity (and at the expense of other alternative masculine identities). Because of this social conditioning aspect, if/when I am ever hopefully fortunate enough to have the blessing of being a father in the future, I will not be enrolling any future male children that I would be having in the Boy Scouts. Not so sure about the Girl Scouts, though, for prospective female children...I don't know whether the same type of social conditioning aspect I have perceived to be in the Boy Scouts is as prevalent in the Girl Scouts...

[Rakin]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

What do you mean by "throwing it in every ones face"?

As a parent of a gay son and someone who has been in PFlag for years...

Ever hear of the term Loud & Proud ? Many gays feel like they must announce their sexuality to the world and force others to accept almost as if they require special consideration. When you join a group does your sexuality become a factor or that something between you, your god and your lover ?

Should a gay boy be allowed to wear a dress and makeup to a scout meeting ? How about a transgendered boy ?

[Phoenix2017]

Originally Posted by Rakin

...

And young men don't need young ladies in their troops. It's where the boys learn a lot about becoming men.

To the poster who wrote the above: please understand, I am definitely not trying to criticize or to come across as intentionally harsh on your post, and genuinely mean this with all kind and polite respect intended, but the quoted portion above is one of things that strongly reinforces why I believe that the Boy Scouts are really intended as a rather ominous, non-benevolent intended social engineering mechanism, for young males. IMO, boys don't need to "learn a lot about becoming men", because they are already inherently men, biologically to begin with.

To provide some additional food for thought here: who decides what makes a man a man, in the first place?

[Natsku]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

Why is coed inherently better?

I said possibly better. I don't know if it is better or not. In my opinion mixed gender groups are better.

[Keim]

Originally Posted by Knight2009

...a rather ominous, non-benevolent intended social engineering mechanism, for young males. IMO, boys don't need to "learn a lot about becoming men", because they are already inherently men, biologically to begin with.

To provide some additional food for though here: who decides what makes a man a man, in the first place?

As an Eagle scout, and former professional I've got to say: Gimme a break! Providing positive male role models and a strong set of values to live up to is ominous? How!?!

Moderator Cut.

[DewDropInn]

I, for one, would love to hear what a "real man" is.

Are there "real men" and "real women"? What happens if a Scout doesn't become a real man? Does he get his epaulettes torn off in a ceremony attended by all the Scouts who became real men?

So many questions....

[Phoenix2017]

Originally Posted by Keim

As an Eagle scout, and former professional I've got to say: Gimme a break! Providing positive male role models and a strong set of values to live up to is ominous? How!?!

It is a little hard for me to explain in a fully-concrete manner, but I do not believe that the masculinity ideal and archetype that mainstream society encourages young males to pursue is necessarily a 100% healthy one for them, emotionally. It does not fully represent their emotional needs or interests. It does not encompass all of the global and comprehensive traits and characteristics of masculinity, such as the masculine capability for love, compassion, mercy, and similar emotional qualities. The Boy Scouts thus by its basic nature only promotes the status quo and society's existing popular groupthink about "what makes a man, a man".

[Keim]

Originally Posted by DewDropInn

I, for one, would love to hear what a "real man" is. And how it's determined a boy becomes a real man.

Are there "real men" and "real women"? What happens if a Scout doesn't become a real man? Does he get his epaulettes torn off in a ceremony attended by all the Scouts who became real men?

So many questions....

If I have to tell you, then you will probably never understand.

Still, I'll try.

A "real man" has a set of values they attempt to live up to.

A reasonable set can be found in the Scout Oath and Law.
[SIZE=3]On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my Country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. [/SIZE]

A Scout is Trustworthy.A Scout tells the truth. He is honest, and he keeps his promises. People can depend on him.A Scout is Loyal.A Scout is true to his family, friends, Scout leaders, school, and nation.A Scout is Helpful.A Scout cares about other people. He willingly volunteers to help others without expecting payment or reward.A Scout is Friendly.A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own.A Scout is Courteous.A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along.A Scout is Kind.A Scout knows there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. Without good reason, he does not harm or kill any living thing.A Scout is Obedient.A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them.A Scout is Cheerful.A Scout looks for the bright side of life. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy.A Scout is Thrifty.A Scout works to pay his own way and to help others. He saves for the future. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.A Scout is Brave.A Scout can face danger although he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at him or threaten him.A Scout is Clean.A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He chooses the company of those who live by high standards. He helps keep his home and community clean.A Scout is Reverent.A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

[Keim]

Originally Posted by Knight2009

It is a little hard for me to explain in a fully-concrete manner, but I do not believe that that masculinity ideal and archetype that mainstream society encourages young males to pursue is necessarily a 100% healthy one for them, emotionally. It does not fully represent their emotional needs or interests. It does not encompass all of the global and comprehensive traits and characteristics of masculinity, such as the masculine capability for love, compassion, mercy, and similar emotional qualities. The Boy Scouts thus by its basic nature only promotes the status quo and society's existing popular groupthink about "what makes a man, a man".

While not perfect, I'll take what the Scouts promote as a masculine ideal over most of the crap promoted by "mainstream society" as a masculine ideal.