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Yes, but biology hasn't changed. Physically adulthood is reached around age 17. A man reaches his prime at age 18, he's at his strongest.
You could say adulthood is reached at puberty when sexual ability is at its peak.
But you could argue that it isn't until 18ish when physical ability is at its peak.
Or 21ish when brain activity is at its peak.
Or 25ish when the brain is fully developed.
Or... You get the picture. Adulthood is a social term, not biological.
But to maintain accuracy, "adulthood," except for the last couple of hundred years has always been "puberty" when the person was able to procreate, think on their own and work.
The same in animals. The delineation between child and adult biologically is the ability to procreate. Socially it is supposedly the ability to reason maturely though if that were true it would be much later than 17 or 18.
She needs you to let her grow up. And if she is afraid of growing up then you really need to let her grow up bc she is about to be a mother and need to become smart and in control of all aspects of her life. So, no, do not go to the doctor's visits and, as others have pointed out, her boyfriend may want to go. He doesn't want you there crowding them as they experience their (not your) child's heartbeat, etc. for the first time. Think of it this way. No one else's mother comes along. This is a time for the couple.
The ultrasound appointment really comes down to this. They are a couple now and they should be approaching these appointments as a couple. She did ask you to be there, but that's because her inner child is still relying on you instead of him.
My sister was overly involved in my niece's medical care throughout her life. When she was in the hospital at 28, her SO of 10 years was overwhelmed by my sister interfering with their lives. He ultimately left her because of my sister. We all know women who leave men who can't cut the apron strings. It happens with daughters too. So you can't really let your daughter be the one who decides when you will be involved or not (such as invites to ultrasound appointment)because she might not be readily able to cut the apron strings. You have to do that for her.
I realize that it was difficult to even think about saying no. How could you? Well, the answer that won't be hurtful is "that's something special for you and boyfriend to enjoy together privately. I can't wait to see the ultrasound picture afterwards." If she says he can't go, suggest she reschedule for when he can. If he doesn't want to go with her, she should go to the ultrasound appointment by herself because she needs to learn what's in store for her.
Is there a copay for her appointments and tests? Does she know she will be paying for those? I know she was told that her pregnancy is covered under the insurance but does she understand copays and deductibles?
The ultrasound appointment really comes down to this. They are a couple now and they should be approaching these appointments as a couple. She did ask you to be there, but that's because her inner child is still relying on you instead of him.
My sister was overly involved in my niece's medical care throughout her life. When she was in the hospital at 28, her SO of 10 years was overwhelmed by my sister interfering with their lives. He ultimately left her because of my sister. We all know women who leave men who can't cut the apron strings. It happens with daughters too. So you can't really let your daughter be the one who decides when you will be involved or not (such as invites to ultrasound appointment)because she might not be readily able to cut the apron strings. You have to do that for her.
I realize that it was difficult to even think about saying no. How could you? Well, the answer that won't be hurtful is "that's something special for you and boyfriend to enjoy together privately. I can't wait to see the ultrasound picture afterwards." If she says he can't go, suggest she reschedule for when he can. If he doesn't want to go with her, she should go to the ultrasound appointment by herself because she needs to learn what's in store for her.
Is there a copay for her appointments and tests? Does she know she will be paying for those? I know she was told that her pregnancy is covered under the insurance but does she understand copays and deductibles?
She does understand copays. She is paying them.
This is all more food for thought. I think that when my kids are 50 I will still call them kids. I call anyone else under 30 a kid too. Simply due to their youthfulness.
I did to to her appointment with them last night as requested. There was no listening to heartbeat or anything. In a way it was good I was there. Her bf was too by the way. She had medical issues when she was younger and needed to know a boatload about family medical history that she didn't know.
He was going to sit in the waiting room and I told him to go in. He needed the push to go and he was grateful. They need guidance for this to work for them. I do not want to sit back and see them fail.
That said, I think I will not go to the ultrasound with them. I will simply look at pics when they come back from it. She has phone calls to make today to check on blood work and what tests insurance will cover and not cover as well as where she can go to get them done.
She has a lot to do.
Her medical issues as a child came in to play on the first visit due to needing some other tests they otherwise wouldn't have done. I guess simply from a practical standpoint it was beneficial that I went. Now that her records are accurate they can better plan for a healthy pregnancy.
I am also glad we sat down with them and went over living expenses. They didn't have a clue. We live in a different area than we used to. Most heating is done by oil up her which can be highly expensive. I thought about it and would have done that with her regardless of the situation when she planned to move out.
I have always thought forewarned is forearmed.
For now I will take things one step at a time and be more of a bystander. I am more than willing to answer questions but keep my opinions to myself unless asked for them.
I am very close to my kids and cannot imagine not being close to them. I still feel very torn for her. But as with anything else going forward, I will keep my feelings close and guarded.
Once again, this will be a tough juggling act on the tightrope. I'm determined to do the best I can to remain supportive without enabling. Very tough road ahead.
Thats good that you went to the appointment because of medical history information. When I was pregnant I had to phone my mum for my first appointment to get my family medical history.
And I think its fine to give advice and go over living costs, no matter what age when moving out. My mum still gives me advice on some things even though I moved out 8 years ago.
I don't really understand the problem with "enabling" - enable means to give strength or ability - whats wrong with giving strength and/or ability to our children, no matter what age they are? Its coddling that we want to avoid.
Honestly, parenting never ends. I'm 27 and feel like I need my parents more now than when I was a kid. Not for money or anything, but for general advice, emotional support, and to still feel connected to family.
Honestly, parenting never ends. I'm 27 and feel like I need my parents more now than when I was a kid. Not for money or anything, but for general advice, emotional support, and to still feel connected to family.
I agree. Amazing that quite a few posters on this thread consider it "butting in", "not letting go", etc.
Jerseyt,
I've been reading this thread and thinking about your post and the comments.
I think, really, it seems to me that you are framing things in your mind as if your daughter and her boyfriend are "kids." You even called them such. However, the reality is that they are really not kids. That is a figment (so to speak) of your mother mind. I think this is someway that you think of them because they are young and inexperienced. However, it is important to realize that really, what you are dealing with, is two adults, not kids. They are young adults, but they are adults.
When you are dealing with adults, you have to treat as such. They are not children and I think the whole reason you are torn about whether to go to doctor visits, etc. is because:
1) you are thinking that your daughter and her boyfriend are kids (and therefore need you since "kids" need their parents); and
2) you are struggling to try to do things differently than the way that you perceived your mother doing things with you.
Regarding number 2, let it go. You are so conscientous of what happened with you that I am positive that you are already a great mother. Stop living and re-living your past.
Regarding number 1, say "they are adults" over and over until you start to really understand that that is the case. Treat her like she is an adult. She can stay in your home while pregnant only if any other adult would be able to stay. Otherwise, she has to go. You have to let her grow up. Yes, you are her mother but SHE is about to become a mother and needs to be able to have the confidence (and SPACE) to be a mother without you smothering her with your wishes, thoughts, etc. Therefore, no, you do not need to be at the doctor visits. She is in college, she is obviously a smart young adult. She does not need you there. She is not 12 and you are not there to lick her wounds and ask all the questions for her. She needs you to let her grow up. And if she is afraid of growing up then you really need to let her grow up bc she is about to be a mother and need to become smart and in control of all aspects of her life. So, no, do not go to the doctor's visits and, as others have pointed out, her boyfriend may want to go. He doesn't want you there crowding them as they experience their (not your) child's heartbeat, etc. for the first time. Think of it this way. No one else's mother comes along. This is a time for the couple. Just bc your daughter and her boyfriend are young does not mean that you should give them any less respect.
Give them respect that adults deserve and treat them as adults...and expect adult behavior and responsibility. They are not kids....really, I promise you they are not. But you have to let your daughter rise to her full potential and stop hovering over her every step to play momma bear.
ETA: Let me give you an example. I would not sit them down advising them of budgets, etc. That is what you do with a 12 year old. That is treating her and her boyfriend like children. I would schedule a meeting with the two of them at a joint time that is suitable for all four (include your husband). I would say that you realize that they have decided to start a family (yes, I would say that bc they have made that decision through their actions - remember, adults are responsible for their actions). I would say that even though I do not agree with the timing, I wish them very good luck and many blessings. I would say that I know that they are smart, responsible and resourceful young adults (not "kids" - remember, stop treating them like they are children and give them respect) and that you would like to understand what plans they have made for living arrangements, taking care of the baby timewise and financially and continuation of education and work pursutis before and after the baby arrives. I would not say it as if I am putting them on the hot seat, I would say it as if I am conducting a business meeting and asking for team members to report to me what they have planned for xyz event. If they look at each other stunned as if they haven't planned a d*mned thing, I would wait in silence (just like at work) and then (very professionally) say, ok, so you haven't had a chance to work out all the details. Ok, that's fine. Why don't you guys talk further and we all circle back in a week. We are really interested in hearing about your new family plans. AND LEAVE IT AT THAT.
That does a few things - let's them know you are expecting them to solve their own problems, let's them solve their own problems (a skill you want to cultivate) and gives them a chance to work together as a team without you.
If they come back with a plan that involves you that you are not willing to accept, then simply (in a business tone) let them know that is not going to work with the parameters in which you are dealing and you need them to come up with a solution that does not tax you timewise or financially. Be very professional and ask them if they would please get back to you in another week.
I just looked at your original post again: you refer to her as a "teen," you call him a "boy" and then a "kid." Come on, these are adults.... You are going to have to change your mindset and let your daughter and her boyfriend grow up.
Excellent post---especially when you compared their plans to how it would happen during a business meeting.
I think that no one is saying don't help your daughter and don't give her advice. I am almost 40 and extremely close to my mother and talk to her every day. However, I know my own medical history....
You have to set expectations of what it means to be an adult or else, how will your daughter know? Parents must teach children what it means to be an adult or else how will they ever know?
She is about to be responsible for another life and yet does not have her own medical record. This is problematic and you are coddling. You are not helping her or him. You are handicapping them.
I would have gently explained to her that she will likely be asked a number of questions about her medical history and that she will probably need her medical record and showed her how to obtain it. Or, I would have simply told her her medical history. Anything she did not know, she could have called you on the phone from the doctor's office at the time the information was asked.
If you love her, teach her how to survive WITHOUT you. This is the true purpose of every parent, isn't it? You seem to think your daughter and boyfriend don't even have the wherewithall to figure out how much heat costs. You are treating them like children so no wonder they are acting like children.
And you didn't need to be there to encourage him to go in with her. You are not his mother. He is a MAN. Yes, really, he is a MAN. He is going to have to start acting like one. It was for YOUR DAUGHTER to communicate to him her desire to have him in the room and for them to work that out together. As another poster said, if he was unwilling, then she needed to take note.
Why do you think they need you?
In any situation, a child only rises to the expectations set. You expect them to be unknowledgeable, somewhat helpless and immature and they are fulfilling all of those expectations. Expect her to be strong, knowledgeable and resourceful - and she will be. He will be too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719
She does understand copays. She is paying them.
This is all more food for thought. I think that when my kids are 50 I will still call them kids. I call anyone else under 30 a kid too. Simply due to their youthfulness.
I did to to her appointment with them last night as requested. There was no listening to heartbeat or anything. In a way it was good I was there. Her bf was too by the way. She had medical issues when she was younger and needed to know a boatload about family medical history that she didn't know.
He was going to sit in the waiting room and I told him to go in. He needed the push to go and he was grateful. They need guidance for this to work for them. I do not want to sit back and see them fail.
That said, I think I will not go to the ultrasound with them. I will simply look at pics when they come back from it. She has phone calls to make today to check on blood work and what tests insurance will cover and not cover as well as where she can go to get them done.
She has a lot to do.
Her medical issues as a child came in to play on the first visit due to needing some other tests they otherwise wouldn't have done. I guess simply from a practical standpoint it was beneficial that I went. Now that her records are accurate they can better plan for a healthy pregnancy.
I am also glad we sat down with them and went over living expenses. They didn't have a clue. We live in a different area than we used to. Most heating is done by oil up her which can be highly expensive. I thought about it and would have done that with her regardless of the situation when she planned to move out.
I have always thought forewarned is forearmed.
For now I will take things one step at a time and be more of a bystander. I am more than willing to answer questions but keep my opinions to myself unless asked for them.
I am very close to my kids and cannot imagine not being close to them. I still feel very torn for her. But as with anything else going forward, I will keep my feelings close and guarded.
Once again, this will be a tough juggling act on the tightrope. I'm determined to do the best I can to remain supportive without enabling. Very tough road ahead.
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