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Old 10-18-2013, 09:20 AM
 
7,672 posts, read 12,743,943 times
Reputation: 8030

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I agree with the above post. The fact that you think "arming" your kids with this weapon and assuming the worst is kind of telling as well. You aren't trusting your kids with the way you are raising them.

I instead do think the worst scenarios AND prepare my kids for them. I rather them be "tempted" at home and effectively handle it then driving them to be sneaky and do things on sly by removing any and ALL temptations.

I am not saying throw everything at them and let them have anything they want. But I do analyze and figure out to the best of my ability which they should have. Instead of a pricey laptop or iPad, I chose a smartphone for her to use. I won't go into details but you can monitor them pretty well with it including a family gps location. We talked about how to use it properly and how I trust them not to abuse it. Now I am trusting in my own ability to raise her with values for her not to abuse it. And if I do (and I do check) find any sort of abuse of the rules etc, then I will punish/take away etc. But I give them a chance to prove to me they can handle it instead of removing all chances for them to handle it.

Again not questioning anyone's choice to parent by not providing a smartphone. It was something that was cost effective and best fit OUR situation. If her school didn't have the Bring your own Technology, the situation would be very different as you are right, a smartphone isn't a necessity. But to say it's a weapon and end of civilization as we know it prompted this post.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:36 AM
 
606 posts, read 940,923 times
Reputation: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazah1080 View Post
These girls were at home drinking while their parents were sleeping. They had no plans to go out until a much older guy texted them asking if they wanted to go to a party. Yes, they are idiots, yes it's def their fault....They would have still been morons for drinking at 13 and 14, but they would have been virgin morons and not rape victims (at least for that night).
I was familiar with the Maryville case before you posted this. Never in a million years, though, would it have occurred to me to blame thirteen- and fourteen-year-old rape victims for their own rapes.

You'll get no argument from me that they were acting recklessly. They deceived the parent they were staying with in order to sneak out, and they absolutely should not have been drinking. Agreed.

But 100% of the fault for the rape belongs with the rapists. Period.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:10 AM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,039,853 times
Reputation: 32572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazah1080 View Post

2. Kids used to have to plan sneaking out - now, with a smart phone they don't. They can arrange meetings late at night without the parents even knowing and dreadful things can happen. (For example: Ending up raped at 13 and 14 years old - http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...reviewed/?_r=0) These girls were at home drinking while their parents were sleeping. They had no plans to go out until a much older guy texted them asking if they wanted to go to a party. Yes, they are idiots, yes it's def their fault. However, if phones (and all technology) had been confiscated that text inviting them out would have not made it to them till the next morning. They would have still been morons for drinking at 13 and 14, but they would have been virgin morons and not rape victims (at least for that night
So once again, America, the rape victims get the blame. Technology in the hands of teenagers is the 2013 twist. (In 1970 it was hot pants. In 1927 it was because they cut their hair and showed their legs.)

We've been told that it's "def their fault". It's not the fault of the rapists(s). Heaven's no. Couldn't be the guy(s) who actually committed the act. Nope. The rape is the fault of the girls who read that text. With honorable mention going to the parents who were sound asleep and ........the device the girls read the text on.

But the guy(s) who committed the crime? The actual rapist(s)? Piffle on them. They don't get the blame because these girls had technology.

It's noted the older guy who used technology to allegedly invite these girls escaped being called a "moron". That's reserved for the victims.

Last edited by DewDropInn; 10-18-2013 at 12:01 PM..
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Lauderdale by the Sea, Florida
384 posts, read 592,684 times
Reputation: 577
Thank you everyone. That was probably the longest text-only post I've written.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:38 PM
 
6,066 posts, read 15,003,574 times
Reputation: 7188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazah1080 View Post
When you hand your KID ( 17 and under ) a smart-phone. You are removing yourself from a position of power and giving your child a powerful resource to get around limits you have put in place. ... Kids, children, are NOT able to mentally handle the responsibility that smartphones and everything that comes with them entail. I personally know parents who are restricting their kids from having anything but phones that can send plain old texts, no cameras, no videos, no apps and THEY STILL take them away at night. Guess which kids seem the happiest to just be alive? Yup.. those kids.
Thanks for explaining your opinion further. I have heard parents say that before and I never understood what they meant. I appreciate your post.

Our opinion is that allowing your child the privilege of using (notice I didn't say having) a mobile device is a way of keeping tabs on your child, and also giving us another way to discipline them if needed.

Just because you allow your child to use a phone does not mean that it cannot be taken away or the account suspended if they choose to use it in a way that is not agreed upon. You are paying for it. The account is under your name. You are the parent. You have the control.

We are also able to keep track of where they are better (especially important with teens). We have an app that shows where at least the phone is, that we can check anytime. We can also set up alerts that let us know if the phone goes into an area that we don't want our kids going (For example, there was a "party house" that was known to a lot of the high schoolers. We set up an alert to let us know if the phones got near that house.)

One thing I love to do is telling the kids "take a photo of where you are and send it to me". This lets them show us that they really are where they say they are, so we trust them. Trust is a huge issue for teenagers and parents. The mobile devices have helped us trust them. I hardly ever feel the need to do that because we do trust them so much, a lot of the times when we have done that... it was because we didn't know the new friend they were hanging out with and so we were a bit nervous. We tell our kids we do this because we need extra reassurance sometimes, because we worry about them.

Of course, there are also apps that take a photo and send it to you (the parent) without the kids knowing, but we like to be more open and honest with our kids. We want them to know we are keeping tabs on them because we care enough to do that.

We have a rule in our family that the kids must text us before they change locations. For example, if they want to head to a friends house after school, they have to text us before they leave the school grounds. And we expect an address and a friends phone number, too. If they don't do that they either don't get to go or if they forget and go anyway, they lose their phone privileges. For our oldest, who is driving and his friends are driving, he has to let us know the make/model/license plate of the car he will be in if it's not his own.

With our oldest son, who is a driver, we even know how fast he is going or if he brakes too fast (yes, there's an app for that lol).

We also limit their ability to use data on their phone... so we choose whether or not they can text, send or receive photos or videos, browse the internet, etc. We also set what times of the day they are allowed to do those things, if at all. We can make those changes anytime.

So, for example, if our son doesn't study for a test or his grade starts falling, we can say "OK, no text messaging until you bring this grade up", or "OK, no sending/receiving photos until you retake this test and get a better grade"... that sort of thing.

It would be impossible for me to list everything that the mobile devices allow us to do here, because over the years (they've had mobile devices since kindergarten) we've just sort of become so used to them that it's all sort of second-nature. But really if you do start young and implement structure and rules early-on, the kids don't think about it. They don't whine or whatever. Kids want these things, and in our family they know that in order to have these things they must abide by our rules. Period. End of story. So it has worked out really well for us.

I totally understand how other families aren't set up to deal with them, though. It would be difficult, I think, if you are a family who has resisted the new technology for this long to suddenly try to figure out how to implement them as the tools that they are into the family lifestyle. That would be tricky. So I get that. With any sort of discipline and behavior expectations - whether it's how to use mobile devices appropriately or table manners or coping with emotions in healthy ways, etc. - it's always easier if you have started young with your kids and been consistent over the years with your family rules, expectations, and discipline.

Last edited by haggardhouseelf; 10-18-2013 at 12:49 PM..
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:32 PM
 
Location: North Pinellas
626 posts, read 1,343,716 times
Reputation: 638
My kids wont get one until...

A) They can pay for it

or

B) There's nothing else available
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:13 PM
 
885 posts, read 1,876,223 times
Reputation: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by LPDAL View Post
. Pointing the finger at an inanimate object is just childish and nonsensical.
I like your response and see the value in it.

My response to you is that a bike doesn't open you up to MILLIONS of strangers being able to contact you. A bike gives you the ability to get away from your house faster than if you walked. When parents give kids bikes do they watch them carefully for a while? Yup! (When parents give kids smart phones, has the past indicated that they watch them carefully? Nope and there's plenty of examples of that). I am not advocating that everyone has to keep smart phones out of their kids hands. I'm saying I WILL. For the people who do hand their kids smart phones at 9 (really? that's crazy..) I'd hope they'd use parental controls to limit the device as much as they want.

If you get on a bike as a kid you open yourself up to harm, sure, but.. If you post your name, your picture, you take the picture in your bedroom and you put your status as "home alone! vidoe chat me" and your profile is public... there's a big difference in "level of exposure to harm"

As parents it's your jobs to protect them from themselves. Allowing that kind of stuff (which is happening right now!!) is senseless.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:15 PM
 
885 posts, read 1,876,223 times
Reputation: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stijl Council View Post
I was familiar with the Maryville case before you posted this. Never in a million years, though, would it have occurred to me to blame thirteen- and fourteen-year-old rape victims for their own rapes.

You'll get no argument from me that they were acting recklessly. They deceived the parent they were staying with in order to sneak out, and they absolutely should not have been drinking. Agreed.

But 100% of the fault for the rape belongs with the rapists. Period.
No no - if I came off like that I apologize. The boys were absolutely responsible. My point is that the situation would not have the ability to have happened if the PARENTS in this situation had some rules about technology use and enforced them and CHECKED to make sure the rules were being enforced. Situations like this are exactly why police departments across the country will tell you no technology in the bedroom late at night.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:17 PM
 
885 posts, read 1,876,223 times
Reputation: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
So once again, America, the rape victims get the blame. Technology in the hands of teenagers is the 2013 twist. (In 1970 it was hot pants. In 1927 it was because they cut their hair and showed their legs.)

We've been told that it's "def their fault". It's not the fault of the rapists(s). Heaven's no. Couldn't be the guy(s) who actually committed the act. Nope. The rape is the fault of the girls who read that text. With honorable mention going to the parents who were sound asleep and ........the device the girls read the text on.

But the guy(s) who committed the crime? The actual rapist(s)? Piffle on them. They don't get the blame because these girls had technology.

It's noted the older guy who used technology to allegedly invite these girls escaped being called a "moron". That's reserved for the victims.
Meeting older boys and being idiots = def their fault for being idiots. Not being raped. I'd never think that, sorry it came off that way.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:22 PM
 
885 posts, read 1,876,223 times
Reputation: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by haggardhouseelf View Post
Thanks for explaining your opinion further. I have heard parents say that before and I never understood what they meant. I appreciate your post.

Our opinion is that allowing your child the privilege of using (notice I didn't say having) a mobile device is a way of keeping tabs on your child, and also giving us another way to discipline them if needed.

Just because you allow your child to use a phone does not mean that it cannot be taken away or the account suspended if they choose to use it in a way that is not agreed upon. You are paying for it. The account is under your name. You are the parent. You have the control.

We are also able to keep track of where they are better (especially important with teens). We have an app that shows where at least the phone is, that we can check anytime. We can also set up alerts that let us know if the phone goes into an area that we don't want our kids going (For example, there was a "party house" that was known to a lot of the high schoolers. We set up an alert to let us know if the phones got near that house.)

One thing I love to do is telling the kids "take a photo of where you are and send it to me". This lets them show us that they really are where they say they are, so we trust them. Trust is a huge issue for teenagers and parents. The mobile devices have helped us trust them. I hardly ever feel the need to do that because we do trust them so much, a lot of the times when we have done that... it was because we didn't know the new friend they were hanging out with and so we were a bit nervous. We tell our kids we do this because we need extra reassurance sometimes, because we worry about them.

Of course, there are also apps that take a photo and send it to you (the parent) without the kids knowing, but we like to be more open and honest with our kids. We want them to know we are keeping tabs on them because we care enough to do that.

We have a rule in our family that the kids must text us before they change locations. For example, if they want to head to a friends house after school, they have to text us before they leave the school grounds. And we expect an address and a friends phone number, too. If they don't do that they either don't get to go or if they forget and go anyway, they lose their phone privileges. For our oldest, who is driving and his friends are driving, he has to let us know the make/model/license plate of the car he will be in if it's not his own.

With our oldest son, who is a driver, we even know how fast he is going or if he brakes too fast (yes, there's an app for that lol).

We also limit their ability to use data on their phone... so we choose whether or not they can text, send or receive photos or videos, browse the internet, etc. We also set what times of the day they are allowed to do those things, if at all. We can make those changes anytime.

So, for example, if our son doesn't study for a test or his grade starts falling, we can say "OK, no text messaging until you bring this grade up", or "OK, no sending/receiving photos until you retake this test and get a better grade"... that sort of thing.

It would be impossible for me to list everything that the mobile devices allow us to do here, because over the years (they've had mobile devices since kindergarten) we've just sort of become so used to them that it's all sort of second-nature. But really if you do start young and implement structure and rules early-on, the kids don't think about it. They don't whine or whatever. Kids want these things, and in our family they know that in order to have these things they must abide by our rules. Period. End of story. So it has worked out really well for us.

I totally understand how other families aren't set up to deal with them, though. It would be difficult, I think, if you are a family who has resisted the new technology for this long to suddenly try to figure out how to implement them as the tools that they are into the family lifestyle. That would be tricky. So I get that. With any sort of discipline and behavior expectations - whether it's how to use mobile devices appropriately or table manners or coping with emotions in healthy ways, etc. - it's always easier if you have started young with your kids and been consistent over the years with your family rules, expectations, and discipline.
You're amazing. Any chance you would ever write out what you use and how you've handled it all with specifics? ie. apple devices vs android.. what apps? etc.. It'd be a great resource for parents.
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