Are Video Games Killing Childhood? (school, friends, brother, kids)
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Oh please, what tripe. Amongst my children's peers I don't know one child as you've described above. I do know 2 of my son's friends who are avid gamers, with probably above average game time, they are also honors students and one swims competitively, and the other is in the scouts and marching band.
What worked for me and my kids was limiting time for what I decided were "non-educational" games. Things like shooters and whatnot. Maybe only an hour or two for an entire week for those.
But I did make a big distinction between those kinds of games and things I thought were educational. Like Minecraft for instance. If my boys really wanted to play I would have them look up videos of how to do the electrical stuff and build it. Then I'd have them talk about it with me.
Over time it looks like this kind of reinforcement made them like the educational games more.
But are they actually learning something, or just how to google "build and electric circuit in minecraft"?
I was going to start a thread until I saw this one. I have to share my experience from the weekend.
I am a married no kids 40yo and my wife and I are avid whitewater kayakers. A friend of ours is getting into the sport and asked us to take him and his 11 yo son down a relatively easy river. When we met them at the put-in, the boy was adamant he was not going kayaking. The father had to have a come to Jesus meeting talk for about 10 minutes before he would put the gear on. After we had been on the water for 10 minutes, the kid starts "wee" ing his way down rapids having a blast. But get this, on quiet flat spots he would say things like "Dad, when I get home I am going to watch TV and play video games." or "I know video games make us argue a lot but I'm going to play them when we get home". This is while we are on the river. We get done and he is proud of himself and his good lines and I complimented him on his natural ability which was not a lie or flattery, the kid is very natural.
When we got back to the top, this kid IMMEDIATELY got in his car and started playing games on his phone. Not to get into details, but there was plenty to walk around and look at in the parking lot that might interest a 11 year old child.
I couldn't believe it. Sure I played probably too much Nintendo 20 years ago, but I remember biking, basketball, exploring, visiting my friends in the city, summer camp (OH MY GOD SUMMERCAMP, I couldn't sleep the night before summer camp). I wasn't particularly jock-y either, looking back I wasn't very good at basketball or any other sport, but if I got the chance to go kayaking on a Sunday (instead of going to church) I would have thought I won the lottery.
Please tell me this is an outlier. Please tell me kids still interact with other kids, voluntarily enjoy sports, etc.
I was going to start a thread until I saw this one. I have to share my experience from the weekend.
I am a married no kids 40yo and my wife and I are avid whitewater kayakers. A friend of ours is getting into the sport and asked us to take him and his 11 yo son down a relatively easy river. When we met them at the put-in, the boy was adamant he was not going kayaking. The father had to have a come to Jesus meeting talk for about 10 minutes before he would put the gear on. After we had been on the water for 10 minutes, the kid starts "wee" ing his way down rapids having a blast. But get this, on quiet flat spots he would say things like "Dad, when I get home I am going to watch TV and play video games." or "I know video games make us argue a lot but I'm going to play them when we get home". This is while we are on the river. We get done and he is proud of himself and his good lines and I complimented him on his natural ability which was not a lie or flattery, the kid is very natural.
When we got back to the top, this kid IMMEDIATELY got in his car and started playing games on his phone. Not to get into details, but there was plenty to walk around and look at in the parking lot that might interest a 11 year old child.
I couldn't believe it. Sure I played probably too much Nintendo 20 years ago, but I remember biking, basketball, exploring, visiting my friends in the city, summer camp (OH MY GOD SUMMERCAMP, I couldn't sleep the night before summer camp). I wasn't particularly jock-y either, looking back I wasn't very good at basketball or any other sport, but if I got the chance to go kayaking on a Sunday (instead of going to church) I would have thought I won the lottery.
Please tell me this is an outlier. Please tell me kids still interact with other kids, voluntarily enjoy sports, etc.
What would be interesting about a parking lot? Sounds to me that it's nothing abnormal really. He went out on the river and played games after.
What would be interesting about a parking lot? Sounds to me that it's nothing abnormal really.
Since you asked.
The put in for this section of river is the take out of a class V run that mixes beginners with the best in the world, no exaggeration. On Sunday there were no less than 50 kayakers hanging out, a bunch of dogs, all manners of shuttle vehicles. It's something I'm still interested in, me at 11-12 would have to dragged away from listening to the best in the world recount how their trips went.
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He went out on the river and played games after.
He reluctantly eventually got on the river, thought and spoke only of TV and video games the whole time, and raced back to his phone before I could notice where he went.
It seems very unnatural to me, but based on your response and quickly thumbing through a few pages here, I guess we're screwed.
The put in for this section of river is the take out of a class V run that mixes beginners with the best in the world, no exaggeration. On Sunday there were no less than 50 kayakers hanging out, a bunch of dogs, all manners of shuttle vehicles. It's something I'm still interested in, me at 11-12 would have to dragged away from listening to the best in the world recount how their trips went.
Yeah, but you are basing that on what you find interesting. An 11 year old isn't going to likely find people hanging out in a parking lot. Hell, I'm an adult and I don't find it interesting.
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Originally Posted by Mr Bruce
He reluctantly eventually got on the river, thought and spoke only of TV and video games the whole time, and raced back to his phone before I could notice where he went.
It seems very unnatural to me, but based on your response and quickly thumbing through a few pages here, I guess we're screwed.
We aren't screwed at all. How do you know the kid doesn't like other things? Just because you find this type of stuff thrilling doesn't mean he is going to. Different people have different interests in life. You also have to remember that this wasn't exactly his choice. His Father pretty much gave him no option.
I'm with the author on this one. Video games have been around for many decades, and the same exact arguments have been parroted throughout that time.
And before that many of the same arguments were perpetuated related to television. I would be unsurprised if people questioned Radio - and even books - when they were first created for the masses.
As the OP said - essentially answering their own thread - moderation is key. There is nothing wrong with computer games. But too much of ANY activity - done to the detriment of the rest of their life - is a bad thing.
With video games - as with television and so forth - we are now moving on to a generation where parents are the ones who grew up playing them. So they are much more aware of what they are - and their content. So I expect a steady fall in mis-informed opinions about videos games going forward.
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Originally Posted by no kudzu
But what about the super violent games which show heads being blown off and blood and gore? Aren't they inappropriate for kids? I think they can numb some kids to the horror of violence and it's repercussions.
A lot of games come with age recommendations so I think your concerns have already been addressed. It is just up to the parents and shop assistants to enforce those conditions - just like it was when I was young getting a VHS movie.
But I have never really bought the "desensitise people to violence" argument however. The same arguments are made about porn and other things. The reality however is I think the vast majority of people have all the required faculties available to them to tell the difference between fantasy and reality - and fantasy hardly densensitizes people to reality all that much. I have seen more gore in computer games and television shows like the walking dead than I care to tell you about. I can watch it all fine. But if someone in reality pricks their finger with a pin and blood comes out - I still go weak at the knees like a school girl
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Originally Posted by OwlAndSparrow
Studies also show that kids who sit around playing video games are much more likely to grow up into adults who want to do very little else.
I have no doubt this is true in extreme cases - but not in the average case. Perhaps you can cite the studies to allow us see what was actually studied and how - rather than that ever empty but oft repeated phrase "Studies show"?
That said however - who are we to admonish others for what they do with their free time. You bemoan that the person you claim to have met could have learned a language or an instrument. Sure they might have been able to but people need aptitude not just invested time for some thing - but still you are projecting your goals and ideals on to someone else who may not share them.
If someone wishes to spend their entire hobby and free time on computer games - what is it to you? Your standards are no more "right" than theirs. They would be no less relevant to say "Look at that person spending a year learning a language they might never even use - they could have spent all that time enjoying the challenges, the fun, the story lines and the development of this game here".
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Originally Posted by OwlAndSparrow
That's all aside from the fact that gaming culture has gotten more toxic over the years, and the popular games have gotten more vulgar, violent, and misogynistic.
Not true in most cases at all. Take the massively successful games from Bioware for example. There is nothing vulgar in them, the violence is functional and fits with the theme and is no different from games or books or movies on similar subjects past and present, they are the exact opposite of misogynistic in that many of their strongest and most powerful characters and heros are female, gay, bisexual and more and women are not portrayed in anything like misogynistic roles - but as strong competent characters in their own rights. And the choices in such game, and their effects, are powerfully moral and deep.
I just randomly opened the turned top 10 computer games on game spot too. Which I think you will agree reflects "the popular games" so I can not be accused of cherry picking here. And nothing violent or vulgar there at all. Much less misogynistic. Two are racing car simulators, one is a challenging space strategy game, one is related directly to Straw Wards, and another one called "her story" is a police reality mystery adventure told from the perspective of a female lead. And the number 1 game is the Witcher which is an intense moral adventure exploring the gray that always exists between moral black and whites - much like the books of the same character. And then there is the LEGO games that make so much money for their creators at this time.
And when I think BACk over games too I do not find your claims to be true either. I think of a popular game like Duke Nukem the gore of which was entirely cartoon - and the misogynistic nature of which was a deliberate parody of itself. Rather than being misogynistic it was intentionally and willfully making a mockery of being misogynistic.
So no - I am simply not buying your narrative here on the progression in the popular games _at all_. Are there exceptions? Sure I would expect so. Grand Theft Auto will be the first one to jump to anyones lips. But they are by far the exceptions rather than the rule.
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Originally Posted by OwlAndSparrow
Not when everyone knows a few. Those add up.
I don't. And before writing this post I threw out the question into multiple OnLine google Hangouts I am in and no one there (sum total of 130 people all told) can think of any example either. Of grades either slipping or - the original statement you back pedalled from somewhat - people dropping out of college entirely.
So your "everyone" narrative here would appear to be quite the hyperbole. But that is the problem with anecdote. When someone says "Many people I know/met fit this dynamic" they are likely more commenting on the standard of people in their circles, than people who fit this dynamic as a whole. It would be like a guy saying "All girls are sluts - most of the girls I know are sluts". Would we reckon he is commenting on girls as a whole - or just the kind of girls HE socialises with and he has falsely extrapolated from there?
However all that said I think the point is being missed. That some people may (according to you) allow grades to suffer due to too many computer games is not an indictment on any level of computer games. But of peoples inability to find balance in their life. And computer games far from have any monopoly on this. The number of things that lead students at third level from applying themselves are legion. Drink - drugs - and the opposite sex for example. For me in my life it was an addiction to Live Music. For others it was television and soap operas and reality TV nonsense.
It does not mean any of these things is bad. At all. Least of all computer games. What it does mean is that there is an issue with a certain minority of people finding discipline and balance in their life between their personal interests and past times - and their duties and responsibilities.
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Originally Posted by OwlAndSparrow
Games are specifically designed to be addictive. Some people can handle them, but many can't.
Same can be said of alcohol - cigarettes - many other drugs - soap operas and reality TV shows - and much more. So it would seem the issue is actually addiction in and of itself - and not one cherry picked example of something that is addictive that you happen to have a person beef with. And actually a multitude of games are not designed to be addictive but to be played through once. The majority of games are non-addictive and the majority of players are not addicts. You are extrapolating from a cherry picked handful of - anecdotal and unverified - extreme cases.
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Originally Posted by OwlAndSparrow
so addicted to something that she gets angry when people question whether it's a worthwhile endeavor.
Something which - I note - not a single person on this thread is doing.
But are they actually learning something, or just how to google "build and electric circuit in minecraft"?
That's a really good question. Yes they are! I'm sure that they would just do that to keep playing if I wasn't able to take a more active hand in their play. But I have them explain how it works to me. It's usually part of dinner that I ask them what they learned today, and often they talk about all sorts of things that I kind of know about.
They don't really "play" minecraft anymore either! We bought them a Raspberry Pi, on their request, which comes with a version of minecraft that they can edit! That editor is written in Python, so they have been spending time with their dad on weekends learning that too.
All in all, the approach seems to have worked wonders and they have been getting into all sorts of coding and wiring.
That's a really good question. Yes they are! I'm sure that they would just do that to keep playing if I wasn't able to take a more active hand in their play. But I have them explain how it works to me. It's usually part of dinner that I ask them what they learned today, and often they talk about all sorts of things that I kind of know about.
They don't really "play" minecraft anymore either! We bought them a Raspberry Pi, on their request, which comes with a version of minecraft that they can edit! That editor is written in Python, so they have been spending time with their dad on weekends learning that too.
All in all, the approach seems to have worked wonders and they have been getting into all sorts of coding and wiring.
Yep, Python is a great entry level language alongside of Ruby .
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