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I am having problems with my 5 year old staying asleep. My Family Practitioner has suggested we give her some Melatonin before bed. I do that. I also lightly spray her pillow with some lavender oil. She has no problems getting to sleep. It's waking up in the middle of the night that she has problems with. She will wake up and want this and that and still will not go back to sleep until about an hour or 2 before she has to wake up for school. She does fine in school. It's just at home that she comes home and is cranky all day. She will not take naps anymore. I don't know what to do. We are having a new baby in few months and I need her to sleep through the night. I know this is having an impact on her. And probably the reason she is anxious and feels like she needs to be up. Please I need some suggestions. We have grounded her from her video games and from playgrounds. Nothing seems to work. She will sit and cry and throw tantrums unless I sit up with her all night. I just don't know what to do anymore. If she keeps throwing tantrums the neighbors are going to call the police. Even right now she is up and insisting that we go to the store for her stuffed animal's special day. I have told her and told her that there is no store open but she insists. She tell me that if we don't go I will ruin her stuffie's special day. And she always tells me that I hurt her feelings by telling her to just be quiet and go to sleep. I know she is manipulating me. This is usually on the nights that my husband works. He is a graveyard worker and works 4 nights a week. If she wakes up when he is home he tells her firmly and she goes back to sleep within the hour. I have tried the same. But she just keeps crying loudly and complains that I hurt her feelings and takes forever to calm down. I do the same way my husband does. I don't know what to do anymore. Please help. We have tried the Love and Logic, we have tried the 123 Magic. None of it works. and yes we have been consistent. Please help.
It sounds like maybe she's looking for attention because she's worried about what the new baby will change in her life. When my kids have had sleep issues that had them up wandering during the night, it was always because of stress.
I wouldn't ground her from playgrounds, instead you should be taking her often and letting her play until she's tired. Getting physical exercise really helps them sleep better.
Also, I would be careful with the melatonin...it's a hormone. I took it for years because of insomnia and I ended up needing more of it over time. It can cause weight gain also.
You should get her some books about the new baby, about big sisters and babies. My oldest especially loved the kind of book that told all the things a baby can't do yet, like play dolls or eat pizza.
Are you still up when she gets up? What happens if the house is dark and quiet when she gets up? Does she cry and come to find you?
She doesn't have a sleep problem, you have a discipline problem. She's doing this to you because you let her. Really, unless severe disabling anxiety problems run in the family, and unless you think she has such severe anxiety that you're ready to take her to get medication for an anxiety disorder, you have to recognize that she's only doing this to you because she can. If you don't set some boundaries, the problem is going to get worse, and will expand to a lot worse things in the future than refusing to let you sleep at night . I bet you that she behaves well in kindergarten because the teacher sets boundaries, and she obeys them. If she's not having anxiety problems at school, than she very likely doesn't have an anxiety disorder.
Everyone wakes up every 90-120 minutes throughout the night, rolls over, and goes back to sleep. She wakes up and is looking for you to keep her occupied until she can fall back asleep. In addition, she is demanding that you buy her stuff at 4 in the morning, and you are playing into it by responding to her, explaining to her that no stores are open, so clearly this is a behavioral management problem!
Cut out the melatonin. Her problem is not in falling asleep, it's that she's unwilling to lie in bed and wait to fall back to sleep when she wakes up in the middle of the night.
First off, you have to have a discussion with hubby so that you two agree on managing this issue. The attitude you must adopt is, "We love you, but we deserve and are entitled to our sleep. We don't care if you're miserable because you wake up at night. Unless you are sick (and that is a rare event), we expect you to be quiet at night so WE can sleep. If you are lonely, bored, even afraid, that is YOUR problem. We can talk about it in the morning. But we expect you to stay quietly in your bedroom all night because we are the parents, you are the child, and you do NOT disturb our sleep without a very good reason." (You don't actually SAY the preceding to her - you just have to adopt that attitude yourselves, so that you won't respond to her manipulative behavior when she says that you're hurting her FEELINGS when you tell her to get back in bed, lie down, and go back to sleep in the middle of the night.) Then you have a daytime discussion together with the little darling. Briefly explain to her that you need your sleep so that you can be good parents during the daytime. Explain that everyone wakes up during the night, and everyone just lies there quietly until they fall back asleep. Then tell her that if she can stay quietly in her bed all night, she can get a present from the present grab bag in the morning, and if she wakes you up in the night, she doesn't get a present, AND she loses something - like any screen time - for the day. Get a bunch of cheap little toys she might like from a yard sale or Goodwill or hand me down from a friend's older kid - stuff like My Pretty Ponies, Trolls, superballs, little things like that. Privately wrap them individually and throw them all in a grab bag. In the AM, if she's let you sleep all night, she gets to pick ONE and unwrap and keep it. If she wakes you up during the night, she doesn't get to pick a present out of the grab bag, and she loses something YOU don't care about - like getting to watch TV that day. When she does cry out in the night (and she will, at first), IGNORE her. If she comes to your bedside, tell her flatly to go back to bed. If she doesn't go, escort her straight back to bed with no interaction - no discussion, no kiss, no I love you, no why are you up, no communication or attention AT ALL, put her back in bed, and leave immediately. If she gets up again, put her right back in the same way. You are bigger than she is, you work hard, and it's not unreasonable to expect a five year old to respect that she has to stay in bed quietly all night. If she wants to throw a tantrum, that's fine, as long as she throws it in her OWN room with the door shut. If she persists in coming to your room, in order to throw her tantrum in your room where you are, because remember, you're not staying with her to watch the tantrum - after all, what good is a tantrum without an audience - you have to then consider whether to take the step to confine her to her room during the tantrum by putting a bolt on the outside of the door. Of course, you then have to unbolt it as soon as the tantrum is over - it's not safe to have her bolted into her room all night, in case of fire. But I have a feeling that you're not going to go that far - after all, you're discussing the reasons why you can't buy a stuffed animal a special present at 4 AM, as if you would were the stores open then.
At first the behavior will get worse. After all, it's worked beautifully up until now, so if suddenly it doesn't, she will think she just has to try it harder, and it will work again. Warn the neighbors, and start on a Friday night - like tomorrow night. If you are utterly, completely consistent about it, you'll be done in one to two nights, since she'll realize that the *** is up, and that you're not engaging with her at night at all anymore. But if you want to, you can make this nighttime battle drag on for as long as you like by continuing to try to reason with her when she wakes up at night and disturbs you.
And give some thought to your general parenting style. I have known families where the parent thinks it's discipline that they finally told the child that they may buy only nine items per grocery shopping trip from the candy rack at the supermarket checkout, instead of ten. You get my point. Is she getting so much stuff, presents, treats, and attention that she has to project onto her stuffed animal that her stuffed animal isn't getting given enough special presents and treats, too? Or is it just that you live in an apartment building, so you feel that you must do anything to keep her quiet at night? If it's the former, cut way, way back on the spoiling. If it's the latter, realize that one or two nights of crying is a lot better than years of night crying.
Last edited by parentologist; 01-02-2014 at 01:07 PM..
Tell her if she wakes up at night that she is to play or read in her room quietly and not wake you up unless she is bleeding or vomiting....if she knows she will get what she wants in the middle of the night, she will continue to wake you up.
Tell her if she wakes up at night that she is to play or read in her room quietly and not wake you up unless she is bleeding or vomiting....if she knows she will get what she wants in the middle of the night, she will continue to wake you up.
Yes, great suggestions, and practice what your new nightly routine will look like. Lay in bed and have her pretend to sleep, wake up, then think about what she will do until she falls back to sleep, then do it (while you are still 'sleeping'). That will give her a chance to test the limits.
Maybe she's worried about the new baby. Maybe she's not liking the idea...Have you tried laying down in her bed with her occasionally?..does she have a nightlight?..on the nights when dad's working (if you're really tired) can't she lay with you?
Does she sleep ok when she has someone with her?
If you lie down with her in bed to help her get back to sleep, plan on doing that every hour and a half all night long. You could have her sleep with you and your husband in the bed, but I don't think that's what you want, or you'd have done it. You could sleep with her in her bed, but I don't think that's what you want, either. Besides, you've got a new baby coming who is going to need your attention at night, and how will you ever get any sleep if she also needs attention at night?
Is this a new thing or has she always had trouble staying asleep? There's a lot going on in her life, between a new baby and school. Whether she's in kindergarten or first grade, there's a lot of adjusting and growing up she's having to do, and that can make kids pretty unsettled. Sounds like she's seeking reassurance that she'll still get attention from you, and nighttime is the one time they can be guaranteed to get our undivided attention, whether positive or negative.
Rather than ignoring her at night, I'd go the other way and offer her more attention, but do it proactively. At night as you settle her in to bed, ask her how she feels about the new baby or school. She may not be able to articulate what's wrong but clearly something is on her mind. Help her to name or describe her emotions and see if you can come up with some answers together.
Also how much sleep is she actually getting? 5 is generally too old to be having naps, other than for illness or every now and then as a catch up (especially when they first start school). If she's been getting naps on a regular basis, maybe she's just not tired enough to stay asleep through the night as well.
I had the same situation with our 7 year old up until recently. In the past he would wake up and get our of bed at ALL hours of the night EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. This occurred the first 6 years of his life until I met his mother and we all began living together. She had told me about his sleeping issue before but never realized how bad it was until I got to experience it first hand.
He was up for any excuse. Just to say I love you. My water bottle needs more water. My blanket is too warm. What are we having for dinner tomorrow. Ridiculous things. My fiance was exhausted all the time because the moment he was awake and in our room she was up and catering to his needs. She hadn't had a good nights sleeps since he had been born. It wasn't bad enough that he was up at all hours of the night calling for his mommy but the fact that he didn't even respect our privacy and just let himself into our room waking us BOTH up just made things much worse. It seriously began to affect our relationship and began to affect my job performance at work since now I wasn't getting a good nights sleep either. Our sex life stopped because we never knew when he would suddenly appear in the room.
I put up with it for 6 months before I finally had to have a serious talk with the fiance and tell her that things needed to change and suggested that she be strict and firm about bed time and staying in bed. She had a hard time doing it since she babied him quite a bit so I had to step in and be the "bad guy" and enforce the rules. No more getting out of bed. No more late night visits to our room especially without knocking. No more excuses period.
We rewarded him at the end of every week with a small toy. We punished him and took a favorite toy away if he broke the rule. Only had to take away a favorite toy once.
This was almost a year ago. Now he stays in bed all night. No more more late night visits. No more calling for mommy at all hours of the night for whatever silly excuse. Everyone gets their sleep. Mom is very well rested now and looks much healthier. Relationship has greatly improved.
She doesn't have a sleep problem, you have a discipline problem. She's doing this to you because you let her. Really, unless severe disabling anxiety problems run in the family, and unless you think she has such severe anxiety that you're ready to take her to get medication for an anxiety disorder, you have to recognize that she's only doing this to you because she can. If you don't set some boundaries, the problem is going to get worse, and will expand to a lot worse things in the future than refusing to let you sleep at night . I bet you that she behaves well in kindergarten because the teacher sets boundaries, and she obeys them. If she's not having anxiety problems at school, than she very likely doesn't have an anxiety disorder.
Everyone wakes up every 90-120 minutes throughout the night, rolls over, and goes back to sleep. She wakes up and is looking for you to keep her occupied until she can fall back asleep. In addition, she is demanding that you buy her stuff at 4 in the morning, and you are playing into it by responding to her, explaining to her that no stores are open, so clearly this is a behavioral management problem!
Cut out the melatonin. Her problem is not in falling asleep, it's that she's unwilling to lie in bed and wait to fall back to sleep when she wakes up in the middle of the night.
First off, you have to have a discussion with hubby so that you two agree on managing this issue. The attitude you must adopt is, "We love you, but we deserve and are entitled to our sleep. We don't care if you're miserable because you wake up at night. Unless you are sick (and that is a rare event), we expect you to be quiet at night so WE can sleep. If you are lonely, bored, even afraid, that is YOUR problem. We can talk about it in the morning. But we expect you to stay quietly in your bedroom all night because we are the parents, you are the child, and you do NOT disturb our sleep without a very good reason." (You don't actually SAY the preceding to her - you just have to adopt that attitude yourselves, so that you won't respond to her manipulative behavior when she says that you're hurting her FEELINGS when you tell her to get back in bed, lie down, and go back to sleep in the middle of the night.) Then you have a daytime discussion together with the little darling. Briefly explain to her that you need your sleep so that you can be good parents during the daytime. Explain that everyone wakes up during the night, and everyone just lies there quietly until they fall back asleep. Then tell her that if she can stay quietly in her bed all night, she can get a present from the present grab bag in the morning, and if she wakes you up in the night, she doesn't get a present, AND she loses something - like any screen time - for the day. Get a bunch of cheap little toys she might like from a yard sale or Goodwill or hand me down from a friend's older kid - stuff like My Pretty Ponies, Trolls, superballs, little things like that. Privately wrap them individually and throw them all in a grab bag. In the AM, if she's let you sleep all night, she gets to pick ONE and unwrap and keep it. If she wakes you up during the night, she doesn't get to pick a present out of the grab bag, and she loses something YOU don't care about - like getting to watch TV that day. When she does cry out in the night (and she will, at first), IGNORE her. If she comes to your bedside, tell her flatly to go back to bed. If she doesn't go, escort her straight back to bed with no interaction - no discussion, no kiss, no I love you, no why are you up, no communication or attention AT ALL, put her back in bed, and leave immediately. If she gets up again, put her right back in the same way. You are bigger than she is, you work hard, and it's not unreasonable to expect a five year old to respect that she has to stay in bed quietly all night. If she wants to throw a tantrum, that's fine, as long as she throws it in her OWN room with the door shut. If she persists in coming to your room, in order to throw her tantrum in your room where you are, because remember, you're not staying with her to watch the tantrum - after all, what good is a tantrum without an audience - you have to then consider whether to take the step to confine her to her room during the tantrum by putting a bolt on the outside of the door. Of course, you then have to unbolt it as soon as the tantrum is over - it's not safe to have her bolted into her room all night, in case of fire. But I have a feeling that you're not going to go that far - after all, you're discussing the reasons why you can't buy a stuffed animal a special present at 4 AM, as if you would were the stores open then.
At first the behavior will get worse. After all, it's worked beautifully up until now, so if suddenly it doesn't, she will think she just has to try it harder, and it will work again. Warn the neighbors, and start on a Friday night - like tomorrow night. If you are utterly, completely consistent about it, you'll be done in one to two nights, since she'll realize that the *** is up, and that you're not engaging with her at night at all anymore. But if you want to, you can make this nighttime battle drag on for as long as you like by continuing to try to reason with her when she wakes up at night and disturbs you.
And give some thought to your general parenting style. I have known families where the parent thinks it's discipline that they finally told the child that they may buy only nine items per grocery shopping trip from the candy rack at the supermarket checkout, instead of ten. You get my point. Is she getting so much stuff, presents, treats, and attention that she has to project onto her stuffed animal that her stuffed animal isn't getting given enough special presents and treats, too? Or is it just that you live in an apartment building, so you feel that you must do anything to keep her quiet at night? If it's the former, cut way, way back on the spoiling. If it's the latter, realize that one or two nights of crying is a lot better than years of night crying.
Excellent post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainGuy74
Oh this is VERY familiar territory for me....
I had the same situation with our 7 year old up until recently. In the past he would wake up and get our of bed at ALL hours of the night EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. This occurred the first 6 years of his life until I met his mother and we all began living together. She had told me about his sleeping issue before but never realized how bad it was until I got to experience it first hand.
He was up for any excuse. Just to say I love you. My water bottle needs more water. My blanket is too warm. What are we having for dinner tomorrow. Ridiculous things. My fiance was exhausted all the time because the moment he was awake and in our room she was up and catering to his needs. She hadn't had a good nights sleeps since he had been born. It wasn't bad enough that he was up at all hours of the night calling for his mommy but the fact that he didn't even respect our privacy and just let himself into our room waking us BOTH up just made things much worse. It seriously began to affect our relationship and began to affect my job performance at work since now I wasn't getting a good nights sleep either. Our sex life stopped because we never knew when he would suddenly appear in the room.
I put up with it for 6 months before I finally had to have a serious talk with the fiance and tell her that things needed to change and suggested that she be strict and firm about bed time and staying in bed. She had a hard time doing it since she babied him quite a bit so I had to step in and be the "bad guy" and enforce the rules. No more getting out of bed. No more late night visits to our room especially without knocking. No more excuses period.
We rewarded him at the end of every week with a small toy. We punished him and took a favorite toy away if he broke the rule. Only had to take away a favorite toy once.
This was almost a year ago. Now he stays in bed all night. No more more late night visits. No more calling for mommy at all hours of the night for whatever silly excuse. Everyone gets their sleep. Mom is very well rested now and looks much healthier. Relationship has greatly improved.
Just have to be firm and maintain discipline!
Thank you for the great personal example. I have had parents of my students report very similar things.
Readers, remember how exhausted you were as new parents? Getting up every few hours every night? Exhausted all night, exhausted all day. Now picture that happening for years and years instead of a few months. That is what can happen if you let the child set the house rules.
"Just have to be firm and maintain discipline". Excellent advice.
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