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Why is there a rise in these diseases that were once held at bay?
Immigration.
What is responsible for the spike in autism and peanut allergies? I wouldn't pin it on not vaccinating kids.
Oh, will you just stop blaming every damn thing that's a problem in this country on immigrants??? Good grief, I bet every time there's a flood, tornado, hurricane or earthquake somewhere in the US, you blame it on immigrants!!!
It is a shame you think so poorly of health care providers that they would violate their oaths just to make a buck.
We will just have to agree to disagree.
Two of my best friends are pediatricians. We have discussed this issue. They have decided to keep seeing vaccine "spacers", but they hate dealing with them. Many times it comes down to mom agreeing to only one vaccine at a specific visit and the doc having to try to decide which one to choose.
Pediatricians who permit spacing are not doing it because it is just as good as the recommended schedule or because there is any medical evidence to support doing it. It is strictly done because misinformed parents want it.
"As a group we discourage using alternate vaccination schedules. There is no scientific evidence that supports spacing out or delaying vaccines or following any available alternate vaccination schedule. The recommended schedules are ones that are designed to provide protection at a time when children are most vulnerable to certain diseases while working best with the responsiveness of a child’s immune system."
"Some parents delay or stagger vaccines, because they presume that doing so is safer. But this is a false assumption based on...
...nothing. Not evidence, not fact, not science, not research. It’s on years (and years) of all of those things that immunization medicine, and the immunization schedule, is based."
"Kids Plus, as many of you know, has a strong stance regarding the importance of vaccines. We expect that, unless medically contraindicated, all of our patients will receive all their vaccines on time. For families who choose to skip or significantly delay vaccines, we ask them to find a practice more supportive of their philosophy. We do this because we believe that immunizations are the cornerstone of preventive/Well care."
That isn't what the poster said. She never mentions illegal vaccines, or requiring only one immunization, she just wanted to spread them out. As long as the child gets them within the appropriate ranges, and her physician is fine with it, then whether or not she decides to go to the park or the docs office is her choice and pretending otherwise just pushes people into the anti-vax community which serves no good for the child or the "herd".
I would need a source, and until then we have no idea how high that risk is, an as you and I have gone around and around before it is clear we will not agree on peoples right to make their own decisions with regard to risk.
1. No, I'm ignorant! Isn't that what you mean? FYI, the table 3 in that link is a catch-up schedule for kids whose vaccines were delayed or interrupted. We do see a lot of this. People are going to come back in a month, and they get back 6-8 months later. That table in no way encourages anyone to spread out vaccination, in fact, it gives the information on how to catch these kids up as quickly as possible.
2. I was giving the most extreme case. A lot of the parents who spread out vaccines in our office will agree to two shots at a time, but most will NOT agree to a combination vaccine like Pentacel or Pediarix. Since you are so knowledgeable about vaccines, I do not need to tell you what's in these. If you think people don't try to get single antigen measles, mumps and rubella vaccines, you have another think coming.
3. Ask and you shall receive. You should know better than to challenge me. I don't post stuff I don't know anything about, like others on this forum. Ha! It didn't take me 30 seconds. Surely someone as knowledgeable about everything as yourself knew this stuff, NO? http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/551272_5
**The major cause of the resurgence was a failure to vaccinate preschool children at the recommended age, 12 to 15 months.[31] Health services research identified the prominent factor to be the healthcare system failing to take advantage of the many opportunities it had to vaccinate children.[3,32] These missed opportunities occurred in physicians' offices and clinics where all vaccines for which children were eligible were not being provided simultaneously, where invalid contraindications were used to exclude otherwise eligible children, where immunizations were provided only in well child visits when there were other visits during which there were no contraindications and where children were referred out of physicians' offices to public clinics for free vaccines because the children's parents could not afford the costs. **
Now I really did not agree wholeheartedly with this "blame the provider" approach, as I have worked in immunization programs where we sent reminder after reminder and people did not return, etc. But one good thing that came out of it was a dropping of policies in many offices that vaccines could only be given at well checks, couldn't be given to kids on antibiotics (they usually can if the child is asymptomatic and afebrile), had to be split up due to office policy, etc. The CDC policy became "give everything you can at every visit possible".
Yes, I know you think flu vaccine is unnecessary, and I believe also HPV. Good luck with that!
ETA: Here is an article, appears to be from Sept. 2012, about a mom wanting to split MMR, also this: "Too often, an immunization delayed is an immunization missed," http://www.parenting.com/article/vac...ct-and-fiction
ETA #2: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013...-declared-safe
**Preliminary research does show children who don't get vaccinated on time are hospitalized more often than children who are immunized according to federal guidelines. **
Not the healthy kids the anti-vax people want us to believe they are.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-16-2014 at 09:08 PM..
It is a shame you think so poorly of health care providers that they would violate their oaths just to make a buck.
It's a shame that you think so poorly about health care providers that you assume they provide treatment only to make a buck! Come on now, you're better than that. Providers that I know who allow spacing only do so to ensure the child, their primary patient after all, receives at least some of their vaccines. I do know other providers who don't accept deniers or spacers at all as their historical level of compliance with other treatments is poor.
It's a shame that you think so poorly about health care providers that you assume they provide treatment only to make a buck! Come on now, you're better than that. Providers that I know who allow spacing only do so to ensure the child, their primary patient after all, receives at least some of their vaccines. I do know other providers who don't accept deniers or spacers at all as their historical level of compliance with other treatments is poor.
There was so little profit in giving vaccines that many doctors refer patients to the local health department for immunizations.
It's a shame that you think so poorly about health care providers that you assume they provide treatment only to make a buck! Come on now, you're better than that. Providers that I know who allow spacing only do so to ensure the child, their primary patient after all, receives at least some of their vaccines. I do know other providers who don't accept deniers or spacers at all as their historical level of compliance with other treatments is poor.
I am not the one who has said that. Please re-read it.
Holy crap. Suzy is the one who is stating that hcps are only allowing spacing because they don't want to deal with parents but aren't willing to just deny treating them.
I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
I believe hcps deserve more credit then to claim they believe spreading out vaccines to be a serious health threat and are still willing to do it just because they are frustrated.
She then quoted the above post, and responded with
There was so little profit in giving vaccines that many doctors refer patients to the local health department for immunizations.
They can't do that any more for insured patients, sadly. I worked at several health departments giving immunizations. A lot of people going there just didn't have doctors, even if they had insurance, if they had moved, or otherwise lost contact with their dr. But yeah, not much money in IZs.
I think the biggest problem that the anti-vaccination group claims about spacing is that it just "feels right" and make up some pseudo-science. Baloney. Hard science is all you can go by, and the CDC and FDA have both endorsed studies by independent university researchers that conclude that vaccinations when spaced out will actually harm a developing immune system by continually bombarding it with cultures of the inactivated viruses. If you just did the research yourself, you would clearly see spacing out the vaccinations is not in the child's best interest.
Further, 50 years of data of vaccinations being clustered once a safe age is reached proves this.
The issue is, our culture is now so "informed" that people assume that a source that preaches to their emotions is correct automatically, when the reality is hard science is the only source you can trust. This is confirmation bias, and the rush of data that bombards us every day and the ability to transmit information, regardless of its truthfulness, has rendered old models of "trust your doctor" obsolete. I will admit to this myself, as I have a skin disorder that can only be treated by taking a drug. I read all sorts of things about people switching their diets, their clothes, their living spaces, etc. and "it really works!" No it doesn't. I tried. I collected data.
This is a totally different ballgame though. Vaccinations are a PUBLIC health benefit. Just because you feel your little poonum shouldn't be "subjected to the health system" doesn't obsolve you of doing your due diligence for the public good. Unfortunately, lack of understanding of real science coupled with a lack of taking responsibility pervades our culture now, and I'm quite honestly terrified of the future. The USA will become no more than a banana republic, replete with preventable disease and a woefully antiquated social system in 50 years time, mark my words.
I never said they wouldn't prefer to follow the CDC schedule. NEVER.
What I said and continue to say is that those physicians who are willing to accommodate spacing vaccinations out are not doing it just to avoid being frustrated by parents. I refuse to believe the majority of hcps are going to violate their hypocratic oaths just to avoid educating their patients. If they thought spreading it out was doing so much harm, I would expect them to refuse to do it.
Clearly those who are using alternative schedules believe spreading out vaccination is acceptable.
Now back to the things I never said.
I never said there was scientific evidence.
I am not anti-vax and I am not pro alternative schedule.
But when you paint someone who want to follow the alt schedule as being the same thing as the anti-vax crowd you are just going to alienate people.
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