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Here's what you do. When they need a ride somewhere just say no and walk away. Works great when raining and snowing. Something to consider is at some point those kids can become parents. Do you want to fund grandkids?
Teach them now or deal with them later, especially the boy.
Our current vehicle is getting somewhat "haggard" in good running condition, needs new paint job. Ok, so, we said we would buy the used car for ourselves for $3900 (plus tax, title, license, tags, etc, etc). That purchase has nothing to do with her. In the meantime, I offered to sell dd my current car, a 2009 Corolla S, 42,000 miles....for....$3500. Same deal as before, she only pays half, no tax, title, etc, and my car has a book value of 12--14K. It is in perfect condition, I bought it new, one driver.
Personally I would sell your Corolla and try to recoup close to blue book value. Then you can purchase the other vehicle you were looking at and not impact your savings if I read your initial post right. Don't worry about your kids. They sound ungrateful and can fight over the van if one of them needs transportation.
When/if they find something they really want, they can purchase it themselves or you can throw them a loan. There is no way I would buy them anything with the attitudes they've expressed.
The deal shouldn't be open for debate, say, "take it or leave it." Don't let them try to wear you down.
Yes I think the only thing the OP did wrong was allow them to argue about it.
I do help my kids with cars so they can work -- I put $2500 toward a car -- if they want a better car than $2500 can buy like a truck with 4 wheel drive, then they have to save and put up the rest.
A lot of parents don't buy or help buy a car at all for their kids.
So, how am I acting "out of spite?" I make both kids a great deal, and they throw it back in my face and try to say we're somehow are trying to cheat them. I said we would put them on our insurance. I just said they should see what it would cost insurance if they had to get it on their own.
You have written extensively here about your kids' behavior problems, so my answer will not address the blatant disrespect. I know there is history there.
Blatant disrespect? You're implying that we're such bad parents we somehow deserve the disrespect. See, that's the "history". We've been more than good parents to them both, but they manage to somehow twist things around to the point that they are being abused, given a raw deal, etc. The facts never bear out, such as in this case---we are offering them both a great deal on their first vehicles, and they are twisting things to the point we are fat, lazy slobs who are trying to live off their labor and wages.
Oh, BTW, DD does work her tail off, she makes about $600/month, while attending school, and we're proud of her---honors student, etc. However, we were puzzled and somewhat concerned to find she hadn't save one penny of that money---about $3000 since she started working. She said she was working for a car, so, where's the money? She countered by saying its HER money, none of our business. Apparently she just blows through it, for stuff like eating out, Starbucks, movies, clothes---except I never see her have a lot of new clothes. I truly wonder if she's buying drugs? Her checking account is part of our bank account. You don't just walk into a bank and open a checking account without credit/good credit, so she's part of our account. Which means we can see her account activity. Seems like a lot of cash withdrawls.
I doubt you're bad parents. It seems to me in some families there is just more of a certain kind of interaction -- it's just the way they are. It's what they do, and your kids will probably be similar to you as parents.
You even let your kids argue and speak their minds -- I really can't say I let mine -- they can speak their minds but they also know I'm mean enough to say "deal's off" and be done with it.
Obviously the OP wants her kids to have a car and for all the right reasons -- they might be safer if they're driving, at least that way they're in control. They just like to tussle around about things.
OP, you are angry and frustrated and with good reason. But from my perspective a more appropriate feeling would be fear.
Living with warning signs sometimes dims our insight into their importance. Both of your teens are giving off signals that they have fallen into habits that could be disastrous to them in the future.
If it were me I wouldn't shrug this off as typical teen behavior.
I doubt you're bad parents. It seems to me in some families there is just more of a certain kind of interaction -- it's just the way they are. It's what they do, and your kids will probably be similar to you as parents.
You even let your kids argue and speak their minds -- I really can't say I let mine -- they can speak their minds but they also know I'm mean enough to say "deal's off" and be done with it.
Obviously the OP wants her kids to have a car and for all the right reasons -- they might be safer if they're driving, at least that way they're in control. They just like to tussle around about things.
Marylee has been writing about her kids behavior problems and CPS involvement since 2009 (maybe even before that).. Note that this daughter was giving her problems at 13 - going places without telling her, not answering her cell phone, refusing to wear appropriate outerwear in the winter, etc. Both kids have been refusing to do their chores for a long time. Her son would overspend his lunch account. He was on probation at 14. Apparently, he was breaking his probation most evenings (he had a 7 pm curfew, but was sneaking out). He had apparently been placed in mental health facilities (but they would not keep him too long as he was not judged dangerous, despite Marylee saying he had brandished knives at her and her husband). He was also on meds that he refused to take.
This family is dysfunctional and needs help, but Marylee seems to think that the counselors are totally unhelpful and that her kids know how to play them.
Here is the deal. Make them pay for the car, pay for insurance, pay for gas. The whole shebang. I went the other way, and am beyond bitter at the unappreciative attitudes my children have. They are the perfect example of the entitlement mentality.
If you give them anything, the value to them is 0.
Marylee has been writing about her kids behavior problems and CPS involvement since 2009 (maybe even before that).. Note that this daughter was giving her problems at 13 - going places without telling her, not answering her cell phone, refusing to wear appropriate outerwear in the winter, etc. Both kids have been refusing to do their chores for a long time. Her son would overspend his lunch account. He was on probation at 14. Apparently, he was breaking his probation most evenings (he had a 7 pm curfew, but was sneaking out). He had apparently been placed in mental health facilities (but they would not keep him too long as he was not judged dangerous, despite Marylee saying he had brandished knives at her and her husband). He was also on meds that he refused to take.
This family is dysfunctional and needs help, but Marylee seems to think that the counselors are totally unhelpful and that her kids know how to play them.
You left out the time her son slickened the stairs with butter and placed marbles on the floor. The kids definitely have the upper hand in that house. I'd show the 18 year old to the door, and prepare the 17 year old for his departure.
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