Unruly 19-year-old under my roof (15 yr old, friends, adult, kids)
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That's not about legalities. They have the option to evict her and have her be homeless for a while. They don't want her to be, so they're not. Evictions are typically straightforward and not very costly.
But in the case of the OP -- it's a mother-adult child relationship -- even going separate ways after the lease is up may not be as easy as it could sound. The daughter doesn't work, she has no way to get her own lease. The mom obviously isn't going to want to see her homeless or desperate for a place to live that she ends up in a hellish situation.
It's better if kids and adult kids don't think they can hold a parent hostage because the parent can never make them leave - and the extreme situation of real homelessness might be the only legal way but the parent should have other options. Kicking a kid out for a day or two can get them thinking about the reality of the situation. They find that other people aren't going to take them in easily or freely, they think about it and realize the parents and their rules aren't so bad after all.
Ok, my daughter is 21 married and with a family of her own but I have to say she is terrified of me which is the way I want it to be. I just had to give her a look that meant business and she moves. Her friends are the same way with me. I don't take any B.S from any kid expecially my own. You need to get tough, really tough, you are NOT her friend, If she hates you she hates you, get over it. You job is to raise her as a productive adult and she is acting like a spoiled child. No one in this world owes her anything, you want it fight for it. Tell her she has 30 days to move out. in 30 days if she has not moved out, change the locks throw what ever you think she "might need" at the curb and wish her luck. Tell her you love her and you will always love her but if she is going to live in "your" home, she WILL do what you say, she Will be respectful, she WILL get a job or two and pay you rent (I had mine pay me 500 a month) and she WILL do chores. then you write an agreement up about what is expected (I think i still have mine if you want me to send it to you) and how long she has until she has to move out. Tough love is hard, I know because my mother did it with me. I was a very angry child and she kicked me out at 15 then again at 18. I hated her at that time (didn't talk to her for about 10 years) but now I know why she did what she did and I am grateful she did, I am a stronger person who respects her more and more every year. Get mean and tough mom, this is going to hurt you more than you hurt her. Again, tell her you love her and you will always love her before you say what you say and after you say what you say. But make the rules very clear. 30 days (or 60), find a job, save up, sign the contract and move. That way, if she doesn't move out on the specific date you can go to court to have her evicted. Harsh, very harsh but needed I suspect. Good luck, but again, be VERY clear on what you expect. No drugs, no noise after such a time, no friends over, no boys, yada yada. Hugs. It is hard. but this will help her grow up.
I am not going to dance around anything or beat around the bush. I am reaping what I've sown. My daughter has zero respect for me.
<major snippage>
Please don't rag on me too hard, as I said, I know I'm reaping what I've sown. Just please tell me what to do and say, like you're talking to a six year old....(to quote Denzel Washington from the film Philadelphia). Thanks in advance.
P.S. Here is another example of something going on right now, and I never know what exactly to do, or say:
The air conditioning is on, it's 90+ outside, and she goes and opens her blinds and window. So do I go up to her and say excuse me, it's hot as blazes outside, I've got the air on, if you open the window, that's going to heat up the house and cost me more money. Close your window now. But I already know, she will tell me to get out and leave her alone and that it is her bedroom. And I'll wimp out and leave and stomp out like a child. Yes, I suck!!!
You are going to have to put your foot down. If you can't throw her out because she is on the lease, move out yourself as soon as the lease is up. Just do it.
As for your phone - report it stolen. Have the police come. Have her arrested. JUST DO IT.
There is no easy way to solve this situation now. It seems, from the way you've worded this, that you're looking for sympathy rather than solutions. Unfortunately sympathy for a situation like this is so much wasted effort. The only thing that will help is taking action.
MOVE OUT. As soon as the lease is up. Take ALL your stuff. ALL of it - including her bedroom furniture. Don't leave her a so much as a single pot or plate. Take it all. Cut her off from your phone plan totally. Do not EVER pay for a single thing for her ever again. If you must assuage your sense of guilt over not giving her money, every time she asks you for it, REFUSE - then put that amount in a savings account and never take it back out again. She can have that when you die.
Having her on the lease limits your options for kicking her out - check in to the requirements for getting rid of a roommate in your state. But if there is no easy way for you to kick her out, do exactly what I said above - MOVE OUT the day the lease expires, and take everything in the house with you. You paid for it. You own it. Strip the place to the walls. Rip that band aid right off!
I've read most of the posts here and the ones that you posted back in 2013. I'm confused about a lot of these issues, yet one thing stands out. HOW can you possibly be the Mother you seem to want to be if you haven't gotten your addiction and pain under control yet? If I get things mixed up here I apologize, but you seem to be on the fence if you want to quit drinking or not. And I never saw anything in any posts if there's ANY responsible relative or family member who can take your daughter in until YOUR life is straightened out. NO you cannot change the past. NO you cannot get past the guilt. Not today, but one day you can.
I see nothing anywhere as to if you even believe in God, so the next part sounds easy. If somewhere in your heart and soul you see that you need God, it's time to put up or shut up. Either accept him and his Son so you can start over with a FRESH AND CLEAN heart, or you don't. That's just one tiny step. You've covered everything with so many layers of crud you have no clue which layer to even peel off yet. You daughter hurts as much as you do. You want to control an uncontrollable situation, and you can't. Not as long as you still not only have issues, but subscriptions. And somehow somewhere I get the impression that you both feed off of each other to stay EXACTLY where you are. Broken. Sad. Hurt. Bleeding inside. Staying stuck is far less painful that opening old wounds and moving on. I hate to say this-but only by working thru your pain and addiction can you ever possibly expect to become whole again, and learn to love you daughter properly. She doesn't know how to respond except with the anger and pain she feels. I'm not condoning her behavior, and you need to start learning new behaviors yourself if you ever want to be a better role model. Tough? You betcha. lovesmountains and Kippie42 have VERY good points.
And the other poster(sorry forgot who) who pointed out that an Internet forum isn't going to help anything is quite correct. If your daughter uses drugs, or drinks to excess, or is in a risky sexual situation that that's a separate issue to be dealt with. And so is the position of her irresponsible behaviors and attitudes. As I said- I don't see/know the whole story, but you want to get better? Start with you. You keeping your focus on her isn't helping her or you. If you two simply cannot exist under the same roof, then look into shelters. Go to an AA meeting if for nothing else but to help find answers. You cannot fix this in an online forum. Your daughter hates that she lost her Mother a long time ago. You can't help you and fix her and stop drinking and get better and have a new life and stop the guilt all in one day.
If you both aren't in counseling, then GO. That is the biggest condition to her staying under the roof that you both are trapped in. You say to her that the ONE thing that is NON-NEGOTIABLE is that you BOTH go to counseling. Either together or separate. Stop the blame game. It's not longer all "your" fault or all her "fault". And if she refuses to go to any counseling, then there are consequences. If you have cable TV in your name-shut it off. It you have internet at the apartment, then shut it off until she stops her crud. You don't need them to survive. And if/when she is willing to meet you at least 1/4 to 1/2 way, then re-connect them. She doesn't need a fancy phone. She can make do with a basic cheap phone until she earns the "right" to whatever phone she probably "'demands" from you. If she comes and goes as she pleases, you need to start putting some sort of expectations/rules on her regardless of if she's going to honor them or not. That way you're at least showing her(in tiny steps) that you care and expect her to behave like an adult. I suspect that she's stuck at a younger age whenever you started drinking, and that she still feels scared and vulnerable and that she can't trust you.. Yet. If she sees you still acting out of control, then how can you expect her to get her act together? It's not all you, not all her. You both need COUNSELING. NOW. This is my take on what I've read in these posts., and have no clue as to what will work or won't. Except deciding if you need God or a higher power in your life. You cannot go this alone.
The most important thing is to respect her, and help her get what she needs.
Help her get a small studio apartment, a long way from your apartment. Arrange for her to be taken off your lease. Offer to pay her deposit and her first three months' rent, at her new studio apartment, in return for cooperation with the change of lease etc. Be positive. You're not kicking her out; you're helping her become independent and get her own apartment. Offer to help her move, and even to help her decorate her new apartment.
Tell her, while she's moving, that after you pay her first three months rent, she's on her own, and had better never ask you for money again. Anytime she asks for money, regardless of her excuse, hang up on her. The first time, tell her you're going to hang up anytime she asks for money. From then on, hang up silently.
It's very important that she understand that if she doesn't get a job fast enough, she's going to be homeless, and it's not going to involve you at all. You're going to hang up on her anytime she asks for any kind of help such as to get another apartment or get a job or anything. She will be entirely on her own, and needs to do all that herself. Tell her again and again, and tell her you're very worried that she might not understand how serious it is. So she can't claim you didn't warn her.
Also tell her she's not to visit you in person till after she has been financially stable for at least a year, meaning no late rent payments and no unemployment. If she tries to visit you in person, get a restraining order, and take it very seriously, calling the police for every violation, and never listening to any excuses.
Every child deserves a decent education. She's going to be enrolled in the school of hard knocks. Do whatever it takes to refrain from trying to steal that education from her by giving her money or anything else that could obstruct her learning process. She's likely to become homeless for at least a number of months, if not more. That will be an important part of her education, so don't try to steal that either.
The most important thing is to respect her, and help her get what she needs.
Help her get a small studio apartment, a long way from your apartment. Arrange for her to be taken off your lease. Offer to pay her deposit and her first three months' rent, at her new studio apartment, in return for cooperation with the change of lease etc. Be positive. You're not kicking her out; you're helping her become independent and get her own apartment. Offer to help her move, and even to help her decorate her new apartment.
Tell her, while she's moving, that after you pay her first three months rent, she's on her own, and had better never ask you for money again. Anytime she asks for money, regardless of her excuse, hang up on her. The first time, tell her you're going to hang up anytime she asks for money. From then on, hang up silently.
It's very important that she understand that if she doesn't get a job fast enough, she's going to be homeless, and it's not going to involve you at all. You're going to hang up on her anytime she asks for any kind of help such as to get another apartment or get a job or anything. She will be entirely on her own, and needs to do all that herself. Tell her again and again, and tell her you're very worried that she might not understand how serious it is. So she can't claim you didn't warn her.
Also tell her she's not to visit you in person till after she has been financially stable for at least a year, meaning no late rent payments and no unemployment. If she tries to visit you in person, get a restraining order, and take it very seriously, calling the police for every violation, and never listening to any excuses.
Every child deserves a decent education. She's going to be enrolled in the school of hard knocks. Do whatever it takes to refrain from trying to steal that education from her by giving her money or anything else that could obstruct her learning process. She's likely to become homeless for at least a number of months, if not more. That will be an important part of her education, so don't try to steal that either.
I really liked this post. You make some excellent points.
OP, I can see us heading this way with our daughter who is 14. Part of her problem is being a teen. However our daughter has many more issues aside from teen angst. Hopefully with patience, therapy and time to mature, we get to a good point by the time she reaches 18. When she does turn 18 and if her behavior continues the way it has for the last 4 years, we are either taking her to a military recruiter or do what Eok has suggested....get her a studio apartment and get her out of our house. Sometimes the school of hard knocks is what someone needs.
I refuse though to be a victim in my own house when a child reaches legal age so either the kid goes or I will go. I've put up with enough abuse and crap through the child years. Adult years....nah. You are on your own and can do whatever you want to do. But not in my house or on my dime. My health and mental state have suffered enough trying to parent through some of these difficulties. At some point, if a child is mentally capable, they need to take responsibility for their life choices.
At least you can admit that you did some wrong things in the past. Some parents are complete idiots, and still want to believe that they did everything right. anyway, i would say just quit disciplining her. that was for a decade ago. now just help her out. There's got be something she really likes, so support her and help her get to her goals through school.
I am not going to dance around anything or beat around the bush. I am reaping what I've sown. My daughter has zero respect for me. Some of it is my fault, some is just her being a self-absorbed teenager. I have not been a good disciplinarian. I basically am afraid of retaliation from her. I did attend parenting classes and did learn useful information and did use it on occasion.
But here I am, she is now 19, living under my roof (but on the lease because she's an "adult"), and she has no job, zero ambition, seems to be depressed, was seeing a psychiatrist and was on meds, but went off them. She acts like she hates me and the world. She goes in and out as she pleases, sometimes staying out all night, never telling me where she's going or who she's with or when she'll be back.
As has been the case for years, if I take something away from her to discipline her, she retaliates by taking something away from me. This is a big reason why I am afraid to attempt to discipline her.
I know what I need to do, but I am too wimpy to do it and if I did, I'm unsure how to assert to her what will happen if she continues down this road. I want to have a sit down and tell her that this all needs to stop or she will be told to move out. So this is more about semantics and what exactly to say to her when the time is right (which, yes, was over a year ago) so that I can get this all resolved fairly peacefully, if that's possible.
For example if I say don't ever take my phone again or I will turn off your service, then we'll just go in circles. I'll say give me my phone, she'll say turn on my service. I know that because she took my phone, her service should remain off for at least 24 hours if not more after returning my phone. But because of how wimpy I've been all these years, it will just not go down like that. I'll end up turning it on so I can get my phone back.
Please don't rag on me too hard, as I said, I know I'm reaping what I've sown. Just please tell me what to do and say, like you're talking to a six year old....(to quote Denzel Washington from the film Philadelphia). Thanks in advance.
P.S. Here is another example of something going on right now, and I never know what exactly to do, or say:
The air conditioning is on, it's 90+ outside, and she goes and opens her blinds and window. So do I go up to her and say excuse me, it's hot as blazes outside, I've got the air on, if you open the window, that's going to heat up the house and cost me more money. Close your window now. But I already know, she will tell me to get out and leave her alone and that it is her bedroom. And I'll wimp out and leave and stomp out like a child. Yes, I suck!!!
"Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be."
Miss Priss needs to move. She's disrespectful, uncooperative, rude and a leech. You may not have made her toe the line growing up, but at 19, she's growing beyond your ability to "discipline" her. At this point, it's her life: Let her live it. BUT, you don't have to fund it. Cancel her phone once and for all. Take her off your account -- not just "turn it off" -- CANCEL THE DARN THING. If she steals -- not takes, STEALS --your phone, report it as stolen and get another one. This stupid "negotiating" tactic is not acceptable.
It's time for her to move out. When she has to pay for her own air conditioning, she'll understand. When she has to pay for her own phone, she'll understand. When she has to figure out where her next Kraft Mac-N-Cheese is coming from, she'll understand.
Cancel her phone, first thing. Then, sit her down for a "this is the new world order" speech: "Dearest, I love you, but I've come to realize that I am getting in the way of you becoming a responsible adult. My house, my rules: First rule: Your phone is now your responsibility, I have cancelled it from my account. Feel free to make whatever arrangements you need for your own phone. Second rule: You will find a job by July 15th, or else you will need to find someplace else to live. You are not contributing your share of the rent, food or utilities, you aren't doing anything productive such as school, and worse, you aren't even trying to. Third: If you steal anything else of mine -- phone, money, credit card, etc. -- I will turn you in to the police for theft. I will not tolerate a thief in my home. You can call this tough love, you can call me a beatch, you can call me whatever you like, but if this is what I have to do to drive home the point that if you are an adult, then you are responsible for your own life, then I'll do it."
Whatever else you do, don't be rude to her and don't be mean to her. Help her get the independence she needs, and help her stay independent, even during periods of poverty and homelessness. And never stop loving her, even when you can't allow her to visit you. She's yours forever, and you should never forget it. Letting kids make their own mistakes, and not letting those mistakes affect your relationship with them, is one of the most important things parents can do for their kids.
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This is a big reason why I am afraid to attempt to discipline her. 