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Old 08-15-2014, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 6,907,317 times
Reputation: 2669

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Does the after school program include older children?
Yes, afterschool is K-5 and is held at the school and run by the teacher assistants. The K kids are supposedly a bit more segregated from the other kids, but often when I pick her up she is running around the gym or playground with all ages. Which is kinda nice because she can hang out with her sister. My older daughter and her friends like to dote on her. They rotate every 30-45 mins through different activities with their assigned groups, so sometimes they are overlapping and other times they aren't.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:47 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,646,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
Yes, afterschool is K-5 and is held at the school and run by the teacher assistants. The K kids are supposedly a bit more segregated from the other kids, but often when I pick her up she is running around the gym or playground with all ages. Which is kinda nice because she can hang out with her sister. My older daughter and her friends like to dote on her. They rotate every 30-45 mins through different activities with their assigned groups, so sometimes they are overlapping and other times they aren't.
This information highlight for me the WATCHFUL part of the watchful waiting. Being around kids that much older, makes it both morel likely that she heard them talking about something more sexual in nature (and incorporated it into one of her "stories") and that she may have been exposed to a child who was inappropriate with her.

Are the ratios also very large, teacher assistant to child? Remember in some states, teaching assistants do not get the same mandatory training that teachers do with regards to special needs kids and also with regards to abuse.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 6,907,317 times
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I don't know the ratios off-hand, but I'm guessing it is somewhere around 1:15 maybe? By the time I come at the end of the day, I think they are often just combining whatever kids are left into one big group, and the teachers that are left just sit in chairs by the door and chat.

They did have a place on the intake form to describe special needs, and they say that they can take any child who goes to the school in the aftercare program. I don't think they have additional training for the aftercare program than what they have to work as a TA in the school though.
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Old 08-15-2014, 01:40 PM
 
13,976 posts, read 25,842,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
T

I do think it's possible that something happened to her, maybe just not in the way that she described, just because it seems like something a kid wouldn't be able to make up. It may not have even happend the other day, just some time in the past, since I know she doesn't understand time. I've been thinking that a scenario that seems more likely to me than in the middle of her classroom, is at her afterschool program because that is a lot more... let's say free-form. I have arrived to pick her up and they told me she was in the bathroom and when I went to get her there were no adults down nearby the bathroom and I went in to find her playing in the toilet water... I'm thinking that I should make sure that the teachers at afterschool are aware of the situation and monitor her more closely. I mean, I was hoping that they'd monitor her more closely anyway after the toilet water incident, but yah...
So, even you think your daughter couldn't have made this up? And it didn't occur to you until now that she leaves the relative safety of the kindergarten classroom and mingles with older kids after school?

C'mon OP. Connect some dots. I am glad you didn't run into school with guns blazing at a likely innocent 5 yr old boy, but why did you never mention she goes to after care?

And it doesn't seem farfetched that there isn't easily seen evidence of molestation 4 days after the fact.
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Old 08-15-2014, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 6,907,317 times
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I'm not saying that she couldn't have made it all up. That's possible. It's also possible that it happened exactly like she said. Others have pointed out that it's also possible that something happened, but just not in the way that she described it. I have been criticized for not including that possiblity, so here I am including that possiblity and the most likely scenario for it that I have thought of. Many have pointed out that it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that a kid that age would be able to make up without some kind of experience, and I'm saying that that sounds like a sensible argument, so let's explore that a bit more.

This thread to me feels full of people saying to me, "What's the matter with you that you didn't do or consider XYZ?". Then when I say, "okay, I've been considering and doing XYZ as you suggest, and here's what I have come up with...", then folks are still mad about it. And then someone else has to chime in that they can't believe that my daughter knows the word vulva, and then throw in some folks who say that I either made it all up or have something to hide. That's super fun for me, for sure... There are some people who are actually being helpful, and I appreciate that, but there are a lot of folks who just want to yell at me, which just makes a hard situation harder.

FYI - I am leaving shortly to go camping for the weekend, so if I don't respond quickly it's because I'm out in the woods, not because I'm ignoring you.
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Old 08-15-2014, 03:49 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,693,567 times
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Is the boy from her kindergarten class also in the after school program?
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Old 08-15-2014, 03:51 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,693,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepushpin View Post
And I think you should be warned that CPS workers get a bonus whenever they remove a special needs child fro. An "abusive" home.
Please provide verifiable proof of this outrageous claim.
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Old 08-15-2014, 04:22 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 7,588,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this incident was reported to CPS by one or more mandatory reporters.

What CPS does with it depends on how it was reported. We have had situations at my school where something was reported and the police arrived in under 10 minutes to investigate and other times, the report may have just been written down in that families file and nothing was done immediately.

Again, what happens depends on many things.

You have to remember that the child said nothing about this to anyone but the mother. Mandatory reporting means if you hear directly from a child or you have good reason to suspect that abuse has happened. At this point the teacher has a second hand comment with zero supporting information. They have nothing directly from the child, nothing they have witnessed to suggest anything occurred, no signals/signs from the child that there is an issue and therefore no real reason to actually suspect anything.

In the past, we (child care center) had the occasion to call CPS and describe similar situations - meaning things have been said but nothing supports it happening - and CPS has sometimes told us there is nothing for us to report at this time so they don't actually take a report.

CPS has said that if the caller insists a report be taken, then CPS has taken the information and made a phone call to the parent and/or child care provider and done their investigation over the phone and then closed it as being unsubstantiated. Over the years in child care this has happened numerous times. Most often it was a parent involved in a divorce/custody situation, but there were other times that kids said things that were just off.

We did have CPS come investigate when a dad reported the mom for an injury (very minor) that had actually occurred in our center and we had all the documentation to support that. CPS didn't talk to anyone but our management team before they closed the case.

So, I wouldn't be so sure that this has been reported. It would not have been at our center. Not to mention that if the doctor sees no reason based on his examination, the is not required to report anything either.
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Old 08-15-2014, 04:45 PM
 
6,293 posts, read 10,543,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
I am a mandatory reporter and there have been several (actually, numerous) times that I reported an suspected incident to CPS and have not told the parent that I did that. There have been times that CPS and the police have investigated incidents by coming to the school and interviewing staff members but did not first go to interview the parent. In a few of the cases I am not even sure that the parents were ever notified./B]. Or, they may have a system where one key staff person, like the school social worker or principal called CPS (and possibly the police department). At least in the schools where I have taught we do not take allegations like this lightly. We would talk with the parent very calmly so they do not over-react or panic but even something rather unlikely (another child intimately touching a peer in the middle of class, on the rug in front of the entire class and teacher) would be reported and we would closely monitor both children for a substantial length of time.
I am also a mandatory reporter and I have never told any of the parents I have reported I called to report them. I usually get a letter in the mail a few weeks later saying what the result, investigation/no investigation, of the call. I file it with guidance.
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Old 08-15-2014, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
19,480 posts, read 24,989,853 times
Reputation: 51106
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this incident was reported to CPS by one or more mandatory reporters.

What CPS does with it depends on how it was reported. We have had situations at my school where something was reported and the police arrived in under 10 minutes to investigate and other times, the report may have just been written down in that families file and nothing was done immediately.

Again, what happens depends on many things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypocore View Post
You have to remember that the child said nothing about this to anyone but the mother. Mandatory reporting means if you hear directly from a child or you have good reason to suspect that abuse has happened. At this point the teacher has a second hand comment with zero supporting information. They have nothing directly from the child, nothing they have witnessed to suggest anything occurred, no signals/signs from the child that there is an issue and therefore no real reason to actually suspect anything.

In the past, we (child care center) had the occasion to call CPS and describe similar situations - meaning things have been said but nothing supports it happening - and CPS has sometimes told us there is nothing for us to report at this time so they don't actually take a report.

CPS has said that if the caller insists a report be taken, then CPS has taken the information and made a phone call to the parent and/or child care provider and done their investigation over the phone and then closed it as being unsubstantiated. Over the years in child care this has happened numerous times. Most often it was a parent involved in a divorce/custody situation, but there were other times that kids said things that were just off.

We did have CPS come investigate when a dad reported the mom for an injury (very minor) that had actually occurred in our center and we had all the documentation to support that. CPS didn't talk to anyone but our management team before they closed the case.

So, I wouldn't be so sure that this has been reported. It would not have been at our center. Not to mention that if the doctor sees no reason based on his examination, the is not required to report anything either.
I completely forgot that it was the parent who informed the school about what her daughter said and not the other way around.

Normally the situation is that the child tells a teacher about something that happened to them and we tell the parents or we see a bruise or injury.

I know that I confidently said that the school notified CPS and I still believe that one or more teachers or staff members contacted CPS, however, after reflection I can not say it with quite as much confidence.

I know that if this happened at my school we would have reported what the mom told us (that her child said) to CPS, however, other schools or other states may have different rules.

Last edited by germaine2626; 08-15-2014 at 09:04 PM..
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