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My parents aren't able to pay for me and I'm 24 with still no degree. I was planning to just go for a 2 year degree at a community college but if a masters is required for most things then screw it, there's no way I could afford that.
Why have a kid if you don't want to (or have the means to) help the kid succeed?
Because when these parents were having kids 18-20 years ago, the average cost at a state university was almost 20% of what it is, now. Just in the last five years, college costs have risen 80%, along with textbooks and housing/food.
40 years ago, I went to one of the top 5 public unversities in the country. My tuition was $900 a semester - out of state. My son went to the same university 30 years later. For a semester's tuition, it was $19,000 - out of state. This year, I note that it is over $23,000 a semester. $46,000 a year. That's the annual income for some families.
I have TWO kids, btw. And yes, we were able to cover most of the expenses, they worked hard and finished up in four years. Both are now out and working in their fields. No complaints from their proud parents.
Did I anticipate college expenses to go that crazy when I had my first child 25 years ago? No. Who does? I suspect most parents 20 years ago had absolutely no clue what would happen to college costs. So don't get snotty about "why have a kid" -- you can't factor in unimaginable cost increases.
Why does everyone think that the white collar life is the only acceptable way?
In other countries, it's considered perfectly acceptable and common to go into the trades.
What exactly are people supposed to do when everyone's an accountant or a lawyer? How many Financial Analysts and software engineers do we really need? We still need mechanics, plumbers, and electricians. These career choices can all pay very well.
Why does everyone think that the white collar life is the only acceptable way?
In other countries, it's considered perfectly acceptable and common to go into the trades.
What exactly are people supposed to do when everyone's an accountant or a lawyer? How many Financial Analysts and software engineers do we really need? We still need mechanics, plumbers, and electricians. These career choices can all pay very well.
Because we have forgotten about the trades or don't push for the hard work that requires for the trades. If someone never had to build a shelf, had to cut wood, or polish cabinets; how could they be a carpenter? If someone never was taught how to clear a clogged toilet, replace shower heads or increase water pressure on the toilets; how could they become a plumber? If someone never tried changing spark plugs, learned to rebuild an engine or had to flush a radiator; how could they become and auto mechanic? Parents didn't give their kids an introduction to the trades and instead pushed for college, college, college. It should't be a surprise why we maybe facing a shortage of workers in the trades in the coming years.
I guess you missed the part where I said my plan is to work and go to school [btw, I'll be making 60k/year. College wasn't wasted on me because my parents paid my way. I'm also pretty sure I'm not the only one. ], but that's really besides my point. I'm also not saying parents need to pay for graduate school. I also never said that parents need to pay 100% of college costs, but that got pinned on me anyways. I said that college is a new necessity of the modern world ( there's only like 4 people here who claim success without a college degree and they were all over 50. Since America became a fully service economy, it has become a different world. The rest told a story of how they struggled to get a college degree. The path to middle class life started with the college degree. )
This is the right way to do things. You only go straight through if:
1. You fail to land a job offer by your senior year.
2. You are working with a professor or student group on a start-up business or advanced project in the university's tech incubator.
Otherwise, take the job, and either get your company to pay for [part of] the advanced degree or save your pennies and go back and get it, yourself. Coming out with an MS + 4-5 years experience will mean you get the job over someone with just an MS alone.
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It's pretty short sided of anyone to think just because you're financially dependent on your parents at 23, it's equal to someone living in their mom's basement at 40. For example, 23 is around the age of a 1st year medical student. If someone's parents are paying for medical school, would you consider this person a loser?
Absolutely, I would. I see you don't know many doctors, or much about the way the world works. If you take 2 minutes to google it, you'll see that about 90% of all medical school students graduate with significant debt. Getting accepted to medical school is like getting into MIT; you are going to pay through the nose for the remaining years of school, then you'll spend your first 5 years on the job paying your dues/paying off your loans. However, your remaining 25 years of high earnings more than offset those 5 lean years.
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Because that's exactly what you are saying. By the time that person is 28/29, s/he is going to be making well into the 150k+ range (probably more with the aging baby boomers). I highly doubt they will need their parents then.
Maybe I live in a different world than you, but I would like to associate with doctors. I find them immensely successful people.
Not all doctors are "immensely successful" or even decent human beings. That's a pretty simplistic view of the world. I once knew a girl who thought the same way; she'd do pretty much anything to get into someone's good graces once she found out they were doing their residency. Pretty sad, desperate, and gross.
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It doesn't seem like you are thinking much in the long term nor are you looking at the bigger picture . Sure, a 23 year old with no plans for the future or getting a graduate degree in medieval studies (or the like) living on their parents dime may or may not amount to much. I'm not really arguing that.
I'm saying it's a personal choice. If you're still sucking at the teat after 23; when the vast majority of your peers are striking out on their own with:
1. A job of their own.
2. TA positions which reimburse for tuition and most expenses of advanced degrees.
3. Acceptance to a high-powered path (med/law) which will allow them to quickly pay off any debt they need to take on to finish school.
Then you're showing a dearth of personal character and a pathological tendency to childish dependence on your parents. I have no qualms about stating that I look down on people like this, and would not want to associate with them, as I believe they will develop ever more serious problems later in life due to their atrophied (or nonexistent) sense of independence.
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In case you didn't know, analytics is an up and coming field, and it's pretty common to make around 100k/year after a few years of working the field after graduation. The program will cost a total of 75k, but the rate of return is high. My parents care to invest in my future. They are supporting me now while I get my education. Once I fully complete it, I'll be more than able to support myself.
To be honest, I think this is a class difference. I'm very sorry to have bought this topic up in this forum. This obviously isn't the place for it.
This is a fine place to discuss it, you just aren't always going to hear things that make you feel warm and fuzzy inside. I mostly agree with you, but I do feel free to express my disdain for, what I see as, a lack of independence and pride in yourself. It has nothing to do with social class, and everything to do with personal character.
This is the right way to do things. You only go straight through if:
1. You fail to land a job offer by your senior year.
2. You are working with a professor or student group on a start-up business or advanced project in the university's tech incubator.
Otherwise, take the job, and either get your company to pay for [part of] the advanced degree or save your pennies and go back and get it, yourself. Coming out with an MS + 4-5 years experience will mean you get the job over someone with just an MS alone.
Absolutely, I would. I see you don't know many doctors, or much about the way the world works. If you take 2 minutes to google it, you'll see that about 90% of all medical school students graduate with significant debt. Getting accepted to medical school is like getting into MIT; you are going to pay through the nose for the remaining years of school, then you'll spend your first 5 years on the job paying your dues/paying off your loans. However, your remaining 25 years of high earnings more than offset those 5 lean years.
Not all doctors are "immensely successful" or even decent human beings. That's a pretty simplistic view of the world. I once knew a girl who thought the same way; she'd do pretty much anything to get into someone's good graces once she found out they were doing their residency. Pretty sad, desperate, and gross.
I'm saying it's a personal choice. If you're still sucking at the teat after 23; when the vast majority of your peers are striking out on their own with:
1. A job of their own.
2. TA positions which reimburse for tuition and most expenses of advanced degrees.
3. Acceptance to a high-powered path (med/law) which will allow them to quickly pay off any debt they need to take on to finish school.
Then you're showing a dearth of personal character and a pathological tendency to childish dependence on your parents. I have no qualms about stating that I look down on people like this, and would not want to associate with them, as I believe they will develop ever more serious problems later in life due to their atrophied (or nonexistent) sense of independence.
This is a fine place to discuss it, you just aren't always going to hear things that make you feel warm and fuzzy inside. I mostly agree with you, but I do feel free to express my disdain for, what I see as, a lack of independence and pride in yourself. It has nothing to do with social class, and everything to do with personal character.
When most people think of successful jobs, doctor tends to be one of the first jobs to come up. I'm not talking about overall success, but but in terms of career success, I think most will agree doctor is high up there.
i know 3 people in medical school. Of them only 1 is taking out a loan. I don't think the other two are lesser people because their parents are paying their way through medical school. It's not a requirement to be in 200k+ worth of debt to become a doctor. (it's pretty much an honor to get into medical school in my opinion).
I will continue to find it strange that someone thinks one should take on massive amounts of debt just to prove independence. then again, I also find it strange when people who have the option to live at home while going to college don't take it and instead take out loans out work more to pay for housing. So once again, I may be in the minority.
For myself, I don't see the point in spending 2-3k a month to live alone in an apartment that is 20 minutes away from my parents house just to prove I'm independent. I'd rather save the money and use it as a down payment towards my own condo or house. Once again, I'm beginning to appreciate my parents more.
Last edited by stellastar2345; 10-10-2014 at 08:08 AM..
For myself, I don't see the point in spending 2-3k a month to live alone in an apartment that is 20 minutes away from my parents house just to prove I'm independent. I'd rather save the money and use it as a down payment towards my own condo or house. Once again, I'm beginning to appreciate my parents more.
Ah, the Pampered Princess Lifestyle - Living in your parents' home rent and expense free while supposedly having a $60k/year job, sponging off their largesse so that you don't have to be a commoner for a few years. You appreciate your parents as long as they open up their checkbook and continue to bankroll you. And they seem to think by spending more and more money on you, they're somehow showing their "love" for you. Obviously, they should have spent more time on your emotional development because you are definitely devoid of personal character and you're too high on yourself to realize what a stinker you are. BTW I saved for my 20% downpayment while living on my own.
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